Bloody dog just bit dh on the face.

[VivaLeBeaver]

I'm in bits, I really thought things were getting better.

We've done everything, behaviourist, etc. only had the dog since May and he's been aggressive since we got him home. Initially with me and dh, now he's fine with me but still nips dh. Though its always been on the back of the leg before. Dog has always been fine with dd, always.

Dh bent down to pick a Pringles tube up off the floor and says the dog just launched himself at dh. I didn't see it happen, dh is dripping blood.

My head tells me this is the end of the road for the dog.

I have two large breed dogs but if either ever were to bite they would be PTS straight away.

I have death with some seriously aggressive dogs and in all honesty it is not worth it. Dogs live for the moment, he won't know anything and certainly won't think about the future.

I would not risk being responsible for this dog at all he sounds dangerous.

Most behaviourists I know won't work with a biter at all due to the risks involved to all parties so at least you have given him a shot with yours but how many chances must he have?!

Lets get a few things straight first

A trained behavourist will ALWAYS work with bitters.

A trained behavourist will very rarely advise a dog to be pts as most behaviour can be altered or managed.

Viva I am sorry to hear this incidence but as usual you are behaving in the calm and sensible manner. Do contact the behaviourist - they have seen your dog in real life and are the only ones who can give your professional, unemotional advice. Will you contact Daniel?

Also in all my years working with dogs I have only seen a truly aggressive dog once. I have seen a lot of aggression as a symptom but not a truly aggressive dog.

Dogs show aggressive symptoms through either fear or frustration. Once this is recognised then training can begin.

This is obviously a situation that is upsetting for you, and I can see you're really trying to do 'the right thing', but it seems that all sense of proportion has been lost. What did the people say who've been bitten? What did the parents of your DD's friend say? It seems that you're so desperate to support the dog as much as possible that you've kind of lost sight of what normal human/dog interaction should be.

It's madness to keep a dog who is so unliveable with. I'm not normally given to hysteria, but truly, when someone gets bitten really badly, how are you going to justify not having stopped this?

Yes, I'll contact Daniel on Tuesday. I've read dd the riot act. She's been sobbing for an hour as she's realised how close the dog is sailing to the wind. It does seem to be all me trying all the positive training techniques while dd has her face glued to the tv/computer.

She's realised she needs to be a lot more proactive in sorting this dog out.

The dog is fear aggressive rather than truly aggressive and as he isn't scared of dd I'm not that worried about her and the dog.

I know it sounds like he's bitten a lot of people but they were all inhibited bites and they were all close together when we first got him. And looking back I can see mistakes I made in all the situations.

No one else has actually had their skin broken by the dog, just bruises.

No one who got nipped/bitten said anything. I obviously said sorry to people. I told the girls mum that I'd have the dog muzzled when she came over again which I have done.

I'm not blaming you at all, it sound incredibly stressful. I was just wondering what people who were outside the bubble of you, DH, DD and dog were making of the situation.

My mum says the dog needs a good beating.

My sil never really noticed it happened, she was wearing jeans and I think if I hadn't told the dog off and apologised I think she'd just have thought the dog ran into her.

My neighbour has been a bit wary of him since but I walk with her and her dogs daily. She keeps an eye on him if he's behind her but generally seems ok and she says she can tell the dogs improved a lot.

When I first got him he was snarling at everyone and lunging at them on the lead. Now he trots along happily, wagging his tail and looking like butter wouldn't melt.

We take him to fun dog shows to socialise him and he's happy for the judge to handle him, look in his mouth, etc.

I'd never beat him. Wouldn't help, would make him 1000x worse.

You poor bugger. What an awful situation to be in.

Fwiw unless either a very experienced behaviourisy or his breeder can take him back then I think the kindest thing for him is pts.

With you when he has bitten or even growled I would imagine he has been soothed and the stress removed. With some one else they may try and beat it out of him.
Someone may decide he would be good to help show other dogs how to be aggressive.

And the next time he bites it could be a lot more serious.

There are too many possible scenarios that could go very wrong for him and for the people around you.

But you know that any way don't you.

No one will judge you for doing the right thing. Xxx

Please remove this dog from your home. The responsible thing is to put him down. If you can't do it, then pass him to a rehome centre and let them take the decision. YABU making your H live with this dog.

Viva,

My DSis had two lovely dogs. But getting old, one bit the postman, and after that bit someone else. The behaviourist where she lived then said that the dog had gone through its inhibition level and would never be reliable again.

The second dog was rehomed when they were about to leave the country. The stupid family allowed their toddler to enter its cage, tease it and take its toys. No wonder it bit. But ditto.

Be prepared for bad news.

It is really sad. I still think you are missing the seriousness of the situation and being blinded by your affection for the dog.

Can I ask why did you take on an aggressive, lunging to bite people, unsocialised dog of a primitive breed which is renouned for being difficult to live with, especially with a DH who has no interest in dogs and a child to consider?

Genuine question, not having a go.

I've never heard anyone say that Podengos are a primitive, hard to train breed before today and I did quite a bit of research into the breed.

He was lovely when we went to see him at the breeders house, friendly, calm. She said he'd been well socialised and I believed her. Looking at how he is now I don't believe her.

She said something funny as we were getting into the car about to be careful of him with my husband as he'd (the dog) never really met men before so wasn't used to them. I wonder now if she knew what he was like, even possibly if she'd sold him once before and he'd been returned? I don't know, she hasn't returned calls or emails.

Dh has never been overly interested in dogs but I've always had dogs. Dh has always managed fine with my previous dogs.

It's not a random descriptor it is the type of dog a podengo is, along with others such as basenjis, this type of dog are known for being difficult to train as they are closer to the 'wild' dogs and their traits relate to this. I cant believe you researched the breed and did not find this. Just done a quick google to confirm I'm not losing it as was a few years since I studied dog breeds lol and this is from the breeds wiki page:

All Podengo types are hardy, intelligent and lively dogs, excelling at agility and making fine companions. Loyal and fearless, Podengos are also good house guards and are amenable to training by dog experienced people and those that enjoy primitive (unrefined, "less domesticated") dog behavior.

Here is another like explaining this further:

www.podengos.us/breedhistory/aprimitivetypepode/

Anyway we are digressing. It's hard when written down to get my point across with out it sounding overly critical or condescending, which i do not mean to be at all, but I can't help but feel really alarmed at the potential seriousness of this dogs behaviour and worry about the amount of times you have allowed your dog to be in the position of biting people.

The common behavioral traits of these breeds include: cautious observation of the environment, aloofness with strangers, high hunting and chase skills, multi-sensory use of smell, sight and hearing in prey recognition and often high threshold resistance for barking or absence of barking with a range of unusual noises such as yodeling, whining, crying and howling.. While the New Guinea Singing Dog is singular, most primitive breeds are pack oriented and show definite pack order. While they may associate with man, these breeds show a marked independent attitude toward commands, a difficulty to train, and a definite penchant for chewing, tearing and destructive behavior when frustrated. They are very territorial and may defend their turf against dogs even larger than themselves. Many of these breeds show high strategy skills to manipulate their environment and are thus escape risks. Usually their play with each other is rough, with mouth over neck or mouth on rear leg ( probably hunting prey practice).

Sorry link failure copy and pasted instead. Not easy dogs and as I said previously combined with then lack of socialisation and learnt bite inhibition, an accident waiting to happen.

I knew they were a breed with a lot of history, that could be traced back a long time but you can say that about lots of different breeds. I didn't read anything about them been aggressive, difficult to train, etc.

plenty of stuff like this where it says how loving they are

The Portuguese Podengo Pequeno is a very lively and intelligent breed that is easy to train, and many have done well in agility, obedience and rally. Since it was bred to hunt all day long and be ready to go again the next day, they require regular exercise and mental stimulation. Exercise should be done on-leash or in a secure, fenced area due to their chase instinct. Occasional brushing and bathing will maintain their coat.

That's from the American kennel club.

Viva, I can't really offer advice but I just wanted to post to offer you some support.

One of the odd things about the Doghouse is that it jogs along with its cast of regulars, but whenever anyone has a thread about biting, a whole bunch of people suddenly invade who we never see the rest of the time immediately insisting that the dog must be PTS instantly.

I really hope you can work this out with your family, and I second the suggestion made earlier by Idirdog that you have some time to think and continue to work with behaviourist. I'm not optimistic but really hope you can all work through this.

I would also think about contacting Trading Standards about breeder and if breeder is registered with KC, please let them know, and the Breed Society. A good breeder should know if their dogs are turning out with such major behavioural issues, and should avoid future matings with these parents.

Toomuch -it's not terribly helpful to describe podencos as a primitive breed - that doesn't help the OP or contribute anything to understanding the breed or indeed this situation. According to some classifications so are greyhounds and whippets - breeds of dogs which studies have shown as being among the least likely of all breeds to bite.

Wishing you and your family all the best.

What they lack in size they make up for in character. A small dog with a big heart. A superb companion dog, due to their obedient, friendly disposition. Very agile, lively and alert. Due to their small size they are equally at home in the town as well as the country.

That's from the gb Podengo club page.

Thanks Scuttle. I was just about to say that I've previously had greyhounds who are even more primitive and also known for been very friendly. It's not like I bought a wolf. Though I do appreciate your concern, thanks.

If I was your DH, and my partner's dog bit me in the face and they refused to get rid of it, I would be beyond furious. Your DH should feel comfortable in his own home without having to worry about the dog.

I have told dh that he has the final say in what happens to the dog and that if he wanted me to have him pts that I'd do it and not be upset with him at all for wanting that. Dh has said at the minute he's ok with the dog not been pts.