How do you 'discipline' your dog?

[assumpta]

Hi, if at all needed during training, how do you correct our dog?

Is it ever right to smack it? Do you tug his lead? Do you ignore the bad behaviour, and if so, how does he then know what is right or wrong? If you pass another dog and he lunges and growls what do you do? Or do you give a reminder of some sort to him before this happens, or cross the street? Or again do you completely ignore his lunging etc?

One trainer I have met said sharp tug on lead, and smack if needed, and believes you make yourself known as boss and treat only rarely, she took my dog as he lunged for another and gave him a smack and very firm voice correcting him in a training class, and he behaved beautifully for almost 2 hours with a hall full of dogs. I was shocked, but it worked! And i have been on a walk with two other dogs since and he behaved really well without any kind of correction.

Another trainer said treat, treat, treat, never smack, basically the direct opposite.

I have never smacked, never agreed with it tbh.

Praise and reward the good behaviour.

Assumpta, do what works for your dog.

In our case, we reward good behaviour and correct undesirable behaviour. No drama in either case, just calm praise/treat or a calm correction ( the correction depends on the issue and the dog in question). We are consistent in our approach and the dogs are well-balanced and secure because they know what is expected of them and their boundaries.

It is pretty much common sense really.

I guess i am a little worried that if someone sees me disciplining him with a quick tip that they will think I am being mean to him all the time, which is definately not so.

Lol, don't worry about what other people think. In France, people think we are too lenient with our dogs, in UK people think we are too strict.

IMO and from the dogs relaxed, content demeanour, we are just right

Enjoy your dog and rely on your instinct and common sense in bringing it up. Sod the rest

I rely on my tone a fair bit. No point in smacking my dog it just sends him into a frenzy and starts a who is bigger and badder war. Mine knows off my tone of voice, well he seems to.

I don't.

Dogs react with aggression for many reason. Mainly fear. If you take away their warning system through violence you are left with a very dangerous situation and a dog whose only recourse is to go straight in for the kill.

I prefer to 'read' my dogs, work out what is bothering them and slowly build their confidence. By teaching your dog to fear your reaction of a certain aggressive behaviour, all you've done is teach him to fear you too. The problem is still there, the dog is still uncomfortable.

For less dangerous unwanted behaviours I ignore and distract. Giving them other ways to direct their energies.

Very occasionally I will remove the dog from the family room, as 'punishment'. This is the tack we are taking with the terriers dry humping of the whippet. He dry humps he is quietly taken from the room. I guess that is punishment of a sort.

I tell him off. I only have to sound gruff and he instantly looks embarrassed and stops whatever it is. But more often I just praise the good stuff.

I use tone of voice mainly. A gruff 'uh uh!' usually stops him in his tracks. I'd never hit my dog. He has a lot more teeth than me, so it seems stupid to start a 'who's the biggest, baddest bastard here?' type thing. If he misbehaves beyond an 'uh uh!', I grab him by the collar and either put him in the kitchen or on the lead if we're out. He soon learns that undesirable manners = being denied the family's presence. Minor misdemeanours are ignored and I withdraw my attention.

Ok, so a gruff voice should be enough. I will see how I get on.

I never smack the dog or tug on his leash. If he lunges on his lead it's actually because he's frightened, and if I hit him it would only make the situation worse ('look, this is is something to be frightened of, because not only is it frightening in itself, but it is paired with a bop on the head'). Also it would be my fault for not reading his body language quick enough and letting him get too close.

There are several research studies that show that dogs taught using only rewards are less likely to display problem behaviours, and more obedient, than those taught using a mix of punishment and rewards or punishment only. Rewards-based training is more effective in the long run.

The problem with punishment is that it is stressful for the dog. Creatures (including us) don't learn well during stressful situations. Also, punishment can cause the dog to become afraid, and I don't want my dog to be afraid of me. It might behave differently for a while out of fear, but hasn't learnt a new behaviour to replace the old one.

I don't hit my dogs and never would, I don't think it's acceptable. I don't hit my children or other adults either.

The extent of discipline used for dogs in this house is either putting the lead back on, (restricting freedom) a 'no' or 'ah ah'.

No tugging on leads either.

I've got one dog that is very dog aggressive and will lunge/bark/growl/snarl at any dog he sees if it is near enough. I work on this by either using a food reward/ball to get his attention before we get closer to the dog or once he has seen the dog (if he sees it before me) then using the 'look' command and he knows now he has to look at me and gets a reward. If he does lunge/bark etc towards the other dog then the behaviour is interupted by a few steps back turning his head away from the other dog to get his attention back on me. It works. He used to do the same with people and is fine now. It's less easy with dogs as we need to make sure dogs we meet are not able to approach him and so can't go to parks or anything and we don't see anywhere near as many dogs as people when out. There's been a huge improvement though.

If anyone tugged this dog's lead and hit him when another dog was around, he would probably bite them. I put my hand on him one of the first times he'd done this and he turned to bite me. He didn't, he realised it was me and he trusts me, but when he is like this the adrenaline is pumping and he can be kind of switched off to everything except the other dog.

There's a lot of evidence that tells us that if you use something the dog doesn't like to try and stop the behaviour (smack/leash jerk/spray collar etc) then the dog may begin to associate that thing with whatever it is directing the behaviour at. So, if you hit your dog whenever he sees another dog, because he is lungeing and barking at it, he may start to think along the lines of 'blimey, whenever I see a dog, something bad happens to me. I really hate dogs now'. In the same way that giving something good every time it sees another dog is making the dog think 'whenever I see another dog I get something really good/something great happens. Dogs are great'.

You might find the following link useful. Incidentally, Victoria Stillwell used to use/believe in Dominance/pack theory, although she has always used positive reinforcement.

positively.com/positive-reinforcement/the-science-behind-the-philosophy/

My dog doesn't seem to respond to praise. His main problem areas are other animals. He always appears like he wants to attack them. If there is one occasion where he doesn't he gets praise, but then the next time he will go on the attack again. We've had to choose a different area to walk the dog than where we would have liked (as everyone walks their dogs there and its not fair to them for us to bring our dog along). Im hoping its because he is still young (2 next month) and will calm down in a couple of years or so, but I dont think it will.

FartBlossom, you can work on that if you want to. The thing is to try and keep him at a distance where he won't respond ('under threshold'), and reward him for that (for staying under threshold and not responding). Then over time you gradually get closer and closer, staying under threshold, and he learns that it's okay to get close. You can teach the 'look' command like Midori described - this is really useful because it teaches him to look at you when he sees something he would otherwise react to, and it also breaks his focus on that thing (helping him calm down). Over time you would find that you could go back and walk in the place where everyone walks their dogs, without problems. This is something I've worked on with Dog2, thanks to some great advice from Minimuu, and it really works.

Assumpta, I forgot to add, distinguish between normal misdemeanours and big no-nos.

Normal bad behaviour - jumping on people, digging holes where not allowed etc, an ignore, a quick 'no' or 'uh uh' in a gruff voice works.

For big no-nos, such as resource guarding, aggression to humans or dogs you need to be very firm and nip the behaviour in the bud. A 'no' may not be sufficient deterrent. In your case, your trainer assessed what would work best. And you have the desired result, a dog that is not aggressive to other dogs.

Fwiw, if my male dog behaved aggressively towards another dog when I have said 'no, enough' he would get a smack as well. Not in anger, but in a calm way. The dog understands it as a signal of my being very displeased with him and adjusts his behaviour accordingly. Short, clear, effective correction and problem over.

So, IMO,

Ignore behaviour which is undesirable attention seeking (e.g., jumping) Reward good behaviour with praise.

Say 'no' or 'uh-uh' for normal undesirable behaviour (e.g., digging holes in the garden) and reward dog when they stop doing the undesired behaviour.

Be very firm with big no-no behaviours, whether it is resource guarding or aggression towards humans or other dogs. I would say 'no' sharply and follow with a physical correction if necessary. This behaviour should be nipped right away and not be allowed to continue as it is very hard to unlearn aggression, especially if the dog sees it is as paying off. Please do not ignore this behaviour, it will not disappear on its own. Nor should you get stressed and hysterical about it. Dog will sense you are not in control and will get stressed as well.

And as always, reward good behaviour.

Best of luck. Honestly this is not rocket science. Most dogs want to please their owners. And if you set very clear expectations, the dog will happily try to do the right thing.

I think there must be a strong element of personality in this. I mean dog personality not owner. My parents dogs have never been properly trained TBH and they got away with this with their border collies but not when they've had crosses or their little JRT. We acquired a rescue dog and he has had very basic training but seems to respond very quickly to requests. He's just a very good dog.

Hi, my boy is also a rescue and in most terms a very good dog. I did notice this morning when I came downstairs and my dh had let him out of his crate, when I came in he tried to jump and when I said 'no' in a firm way, he barked at me, which I then said 'no' again to this he barked again, then slicked off to his mat. I really don't want my dog afraid of me, and he has never done this before I started being more firm. Is this him trying to see if I mean my firmness, and he wants to show he is trying to be in charge?

The problem is it all makes sense when you are dealing with similarly trained dogs in a training session, but not in real life situations. One idiot this morning just stopped and looked at me with her two dogs when she could see that I was trying to distract him from reacting to them, of course he then reacted then when I walked past. I did correct him verbally and with a tug, but to be honest, I don't know if I am doing right from wrong. I also never slapped my children and I would like to think that they are well rounded and well behaved children, most of the time. But when you have a professional telling you to do something I presume they are right.

I don't think most dogs want to be in charge. But they want to know that somebody is in charge, as that gives them security. They will test boundaries, and if they see that yes, there are consistent rules, they feel more relaxed.

Every dog is different, but fwiw, I do not see distracting my dog as a long-term training strategy. Deal with the actual problem, distractions are just that, distractions, not a long term fix.

If your dog is lunging at other dogs aggressively, understand why it is doing it and resolve the issue. Deal with the root cause and the symptoms will go away.

I know on mumsnet doghouse, leadership and authority are bad words. In reality, they provide security and comfort to a dog. There is healthy fear and unhealthy fear. E.g., not speeding because I might get punished with a fine. Nothing wrong with that. Or I better not yell at my parents or hurt other children or throw tantrums because there are consequences. The consequences need to be clear and fair and proportionate to the bad behaviour, but there needs to be consequences. Just as there are rewards for good behaviour. Both are required and one without the other doesn't work, IMO.

It doesn't really matter whether the consequence is a smack or a time out or removal of a toy. The point is it is immediate, so dog can link action to consequence and it is done in a calm, consistent manner.

I really don't agree with smacking a dog. It leads to all kinds of other behaviours. Postive reinforcement and consistency is the only way to go. Keep your voice low so that the dog has to listen. Don't shout, the dog will just shout louder and let the dog know that no, means no. Never ignore bad behaviour. Step infront and back your dog up until it sits and looks at you. Then give it a treat. Teach the dog to watch your feet by weaving in and out of things and changing direction suddenly etc. They enjoy this and keeps attention on you. Only try teaching new things when the dog has had good exercise and is tired.

Also, it might be an idea to have a special kind of treat for a while that is only outed when he's reacting badly to other dogs. Don't use the treat for any other situation.

I don't have a dog that reacts aggressively to other dogs. My male dog postures on some occasions, but it is harmless and he comes back with a sheepish mixed with victorious expression when I call him back with a 'that's enough'.

Till I came to mumsnet, i never realised this was a major issue, although I did notice in the UK that dogs seemed more skittish and aggressive at the same time. I wonder if the problem is the owners? No offense meant, but it is important, IMO, to get to the root of the behaviour and resolve that, rather than simply distracting the dog, which will only work sporadically, at best.

Is it that you tense up, when you see another dog? And is your dog reacting to your tension and thinking the other dog is a danger? In that case, the situation is for you to be calm.

I honestly feel there is so much of unnecessary polarisation on views and ideological debate in bringing up dogs. And yes, a lot of fear as well. It is unnecessary. There is a lot to be said for calm, assertive leadership, and for lots of praise and affection. The two are not opposites, but complementary. The thing which is most detrimental to a dog is nervous, fearful energy. Whether it is a smack or a treat delivered by a stressed scared owner, the effect will be a nervous dog.

We have had a collie cross, a dachshund a Petit Bassett Griffon Vendeen and a Staffie. An ever so slight short telling off has had the desired effect on them all - the dachshund and the staffie were the most sensitive. TheCollie Cross was the cleverest and would play sorry for a bit and then do whatever it was again.

Flatbread, No offence taken, but can you please explain this to me regarding the owners perhaps being the problem. I am not disagreeing with you, but I feel that I am doing everything that she has told me. For example 'be confident with him'; I am. Put 'through' the lead that I will take no nonsense; I do. Don't tense up when another dog approaching; I don't.

'Leave the lead slack', right, with this I do have a problem, because I don't tense the lead, he does when he lunges forward, sideways or backwards, depending on where the other dog comes from, so tell me how I leave the lead slack? This is a serious question. As I said earlier, fine for other dogs that trained in a similar way to ignore, but what about if he tries to pass calmly and the other dog does not.

If I use distraction, it doesn't get to the root of the problem, if I shout or smack, it doesn't get to the route of the problem. The trainer says it is me, not him, (again i am not disagreeing), yet when she took him, he did it with her first time too when she approached another dog, so how is it me that is giving wrong vibes, but she isn't when he did it while with her?

I have no idea what his life was like before we got him as he is a rescue. We have had him 11 weeks. How do I find the root of the problem?

It can sometimes be the owners anxiety creating anxiety in the dog, however, it can also be a past bad experience causing the dog to be fearful resulting in a kill or be killed attitude or it can simply be complete lack of socialisation.

In your situation I would turn and walk away from the other dog (not so the other dog is behind you, but so it is at your side, if possible) until your dog is relaxed enough for you to get a response to the 'look at me' command and then treat. Eventually the distance you can to another dog should shorten and eventually you should be able pass another dog and your dog should stay focused on you.

Dogs do need leaders, that I will agree with. They also need boundaries, much like children, but I prefer to gain status through mutual respect and understanding. I am leader by default. I control food, walks and access to toys. I don't need violence and fear to tip the balance in my favour. I am already in charge of my dog's world.

she took my dog as he lunged for another and gave him a smack and very firm voice correcting him in a training class, and he behaved beautifully for almost 2 hours with a hall full of dogs. I was shocked, but it worked! And i have been on a walk with two other dogs since and he behaved really well without any kind of correction

So what your trainer did seems to be effective. Did you ask her why she did this and what was the root of his behaviour?

Does she think your dog was nervous and this reassured him that she was in charge and would take care of protecting him, and he didn't need to be nervous of other dogs?

Or is it just a habit that he has gotten used to, and enjoys posturing at other dogs?

Or is it when you walk him, you are tightening the leash on seeing another dog, therefore communicating to him that you are sensing a possible danger and he reacts accordingly?

I don't know the answers. I haven't seen you or your dog. What I am saying is that don't get caught in ideological debates. Understand your dog using your instincts and do what works, in a calm, consistent way. It is important not to let undesirable behaviour continue, because it will likely become a habit, and once it reaches that stage, it is hard work to undo.

I imagine the smack both broke the dog's attention and was unexpected which stopped the dog in its tracks. I don't think this is a good way of dealing with the situation though, because the dog will start moving away to avoid the smack and still lunge. What breed of dog do you have?