How do you 'discipline' your dog?

[assumpta]

Hi, if at all needed during training, how do you correct our dog?

Is it ever right to smack it? Do you tug his lead? Do you ignore the bad behaviour, and if so, how does he then know what is right or wrong? If you pass another dog and he lunges and growls what do you do? Or do you give a reminder of some sort to him before this happens, or cross the street? Or again do you completely ignore his lunging etc?

One trainer I have met said sharp tug on lead, and smack if needed, and believes you make yourself known as boss and treat only rarely, she took my dog as he lunged for another and gave him a smack and very firm voice correcting him in a training class, and he behaved beautifully for almost 2 hours with a hall full of dogs. I was shocked, but it worked! And i have been on a walk with two other dogs since and he behaved really well without any kind of correction.

Another trainer said treat, treat, treat, never smack, basically the direct opposite.

It might be that you could find a more up-to-date trainer, assumpta. Did the one who said 'treat and never smack' explain why? If so they might be a better person to go with.

Dogs that are trained using reward-based training only are more obedient and have fewer problem behaviours (such as aggression) than those taught using either punishment-only or a combination of punishment-and-rewards. This is the reason I keep disagreeing with Flat over this. I can give you links to scientific studies if you want.

It can also be more difficult training a rescue than a puppy, depending on its background. But that doesn't mean it can't be done - just that they might have ingrained behaviours that need to be trained out, and a lack of socialization to take account of. (This isn't the case for all rescues - some have no issues at all).

With the jumping, don't say anything. Just fold your arms and quietly turn away. Then when the dog has its bum parked on the floor (or just all four paws, if you prefer), make a big fuss of him. He is jumping for attention, and even saying 'no' is a kind of attention, so that's why it's better to just turn away.

The leash reactivity could take longer to solve, depending on his background. If you search for 'look dog' and minimuu you should find several threads where she explains how to do this. If he will already go past a well-behaved dog and only reacts to the ones that are over-excited, then you are already part-way there. Like Dooin says, you need to keep the dog away from dogs he will react to, at a distance where he won't react - easier said than done, I know, but it comes with practice (and the problem starts to go away). I have done this with one of my rescue dogs that hadn't had any socialization.

Another reason not to use punishment is that it only tells the dog he has done something wrong, and not what he should do instead. Distraction can often be used as a way of showing the dog how he should behave, and/or that a situation is not as stressful as he thought it would be.

Flat - fair enough, my instincts say don't hit anything if you want it to do what you want, however I have not come up against this before. I guess it is like saying when you bring a new baby home, use our instincts, well I don't know about you, but my 'instincts' worked a lot better with baby no. 2, as I had some idea of what I was doing. I will have to muddle my way through. Regarding not letting the behaviour continue, perhaps he has been like this for years, so it will take time. Basically I don't want to make it worse, but if kind and slowly is the way to go, then I would rather do that and eventually keep him calm in the situation of meeting or passing another dog.

Look - he is a small terrier cross of some kind

Red - she does not believe in the dominance theory, and believes that smacking and agression towards a dog will only result in the dog behaving in an agressive way towards you.

I suppose the thing is, I am willing to put whatever time I need to put into this to get it solved, however the majority of people I have met say their dogs don't really like other dogs and not to panic about it, but, as i said, I want him to feel at ease and not be wound up on sighting another dog.

is a video by Drayton Michaels about leash reactivity. He is a behaviourist and it shows him doing a training session out and about. I found it very helpful because it shows how he deals with real-life events around him, and tries to structure it to help the dog. You might find it useful too.

You can fix it with time, assumpta. We are not 100% there with Dog2 but we are doing very well now - even though we had another dog attack him recently, it wasn't as much of a set-back as I feared. He goes past most dogs without any reactions but still struggles a bit with the ones that seem as if they want to kill him. It is difficult when there are such conflicting views about dogs, but unfortunately some older ideas take a long time to go away.

We had New Zealand visitors shortly after ddog arrived from rescue, he was a very silly dog indeed, did lots of jumping up. Their dog trainer had told them to say 'Ba' instead of 'No', which seems to work better. (I don't know if that is a general Kiwi-ism?).
Also, I meet a dogwalker sometimes with a huge dog (German Shepherd/Retriever), who they have had since he was a tiny, abandoned pup with health issues. He does tend to lunge at other dogs (all smaller, as he is a dog giant), and 'his mum' is scared to walk him. The owner has a sports water bottle which he sprays onto the dog to pre-empt him...any opinions on that? (He is gorgeous, just a bit enthusiastic).

Assumpta, then do what you feel comfortable with. If you try to follow some kind of 'rule book' or do things that you are not comfortable with, the dog will sense your unease and will not listen to you.

St leggier, I personally would not spray my dog with a water bottle, I don't see the point. But if it works for them and their dog, then so be it.

Dogs that are trained using reward-based training only are more obedient and have fewer problem behaviours (such as aggression) than those taught using either punishment-only or a combination of punishment-and-rewards. This is the reason I keep disagreeing with Flat over this. I can give you links to scientific studies if you want

I have read the literature too. Tbh it is not scientific. You would need controlled experiment to do this, with both methods administered by the same person on the same dog in the same circumstances over a period of time. Doesn't happen. It really is about ideological leaning to take one extreme position vs. another.

Dog rearing (like child rearing philosophies) that say there is only one right way of doing things are usually fads, and swing from one end of the pendulum to the other. Most people pick and choose and instinctively follow the middle path. And you know you have gotten it right when you have a happy, balanced dog. That is why I say, don't be rigid about a philosophy, focus on your dog, understand their behaviour and respond accordingly. Modify, change your approach if things are not working.

Redwing that video changed my life. It has completely altered the way I reacted to our terrier's on-leash issues; she's lovely now .

We use positive reinforcement 90% of the time and a growly, gruff "NO" or "OFF" when something naughty is going on (Westie is never naughty but Springer puppy is going through the "curious" and "food thieving" stage ). Sometimes all I need to do is say her name in the growly voice and curl my lip at her and she stops immediately. I have no idea why this works but it does. I would never yell at or smack my dogs...

stleger, this is going to make me sound really sad, but some people teach their dog commands in Klingon, and ba! means sit in Klingon. Perhaps it came from that.

I swear that my dogs do not know a word of Klingon.

It doesn't sound like the spray bottle is working. I agree with Flat on that, I wouldn't do it.

Flatbread that's a lot of peer-reviewed studies to dismiss out of of hand. I was thinking of the ones that look at real-life situations and pet dogs, but there are studies of the best way to train lab beagles too (as of course for training police and service dogs). It isn't just a fad. There is also a sound theoretical basis for it - part of which is that stress hormones interfere with learning, hence stressing the dog is not very helpful.

Sriracha, that's fantastic. I've posted that video before because I found it so helpful for dealing with Dog2. It's great that it worked so well for your dog too :)

Ah, I agree stressing a dog is not helpful. But that is why calm consistent reward and discipline is required. That does not create stress.

Btw, discipline is not equivalent to smacking. discipline is telling the dog what behaviours are not acceptable, consequences for those behaviours. The positive side is telling what behaviours are desirable and the rewards for these. Both together provide boundaries and security to the dog.

What creates lack of balance in a dog is a scared owner, and I have seen many of these, unnecessarily reassuring dogs on the walks, feeding them goodies while looking around nervously at other dogs. Their pets look stressed and out of balance.

I believe that people who do treats only training want the easy way out, you know, be Santa to their dogs all the time, without putting in the real work required to bring up a happy dog.

A bit like some of the parenting techniques where little Alisha can do no wrong and the poor mite is only expressing herself. And the stressed parents make excuses for the child's behaviour and keep pleading with treats to get the child to listen. Till super nanny is called in to provide some order and discipline in the household.

For once I can see where you're coming from, but you've misunderstood to assume that it means no boundaries. After all, rewards-based training does mean training, not being Santa - the dog has to work for the rewards.

Just do what works! My dog is a rescue and does the same thing. I wonder whether he was attacked by another dog in his previous life. So smacking and shouting would make him more frightened. So I give other dogs a wide berth when he is on the lead, and distract him with a squeaky ball or toy or treat and reward with a treat when he ignores the other dog...and he is getting better every time

I think the NZ Ba was supposed to replicate a noise made to pups by their mothers. Ddog is looking at me and rolling his eyes!
I would agree that nervey owners can be a problem, as much as their dogs. I'm not too sure that a retriever would mind a water spray...

I use my voice, stern tone for avoiding unwanted behaviour or letting them know they have misbehaved if I'm not quick enough to stop it. Gentle indulgent tone for praise. If I use my hands it's to steer them, or their gaze, away. That said I never walk them off lead, it's not safe for the dogs here in Chile.

I'm not a trainer, just doing what feels right for me.