Vociferous dog lovers, I need your help.

[Sposh]

This is a 'what breed?' (if any) question.

We are a family of four, two dd's 15 & 13. Both girls want to get a dog. Dh comes from a family who had dogs all his childhood so knows all about how much is involved. We had a disastrous experience with a rescue dog a couple of years ago. Had him two years - he was enormous and completely untrainable and we very sadly had give him back to dogs trust after he attacked dd2 with no warning whatsoever after we'd spent a lot of time and money on behavioural issues. This is my only experience of living with a dog so if we're going to try again I want to do it right.

Any dog we might consider would have to be small enough not to have the strength to pull a skinny teenaged girl over on a lead as they want to be able to walk him. They couldn't do this with the last dog as he had the strength of a black bear and they were even smaller/skinnier back then, so I'm thinking the largest size would be collie. But not a collie as they need soooooo much stimulation. None of us could tolerate a yappy tiny thing (do all small dogs yap?) None of us have a problem with cross breeds, heinz 57s - we're not looking for a designer dog by any stretch of the imagination. The rescue we had was, by guesswork, great dane/lab/GS. He was youngish when we got him and grew more than we expected, his head was up to my hip, I'm 5'6.

The girls have issues. One is a tearaway teen who is beginning to settle down, she doesn't go to school so is home on weekdays but sleeps until lunchtime given half a chance. She gets lots of chances as I work until lunchtime, four hours a day, 5 days a week currently. This could, theoretically become more at any time in the next few years.

The younger girl is also not currently in school daily because of extreme anxiety issues. She is doing a programme at the moment when she goes into school when able, on a reduced timetable. The maximum at the moment is two mornings and one 5hr day but there are many entire weeks when she doesn't make it in at all. She is the one pushing the issue of a dog. I think it would do her a lot of good to have the responsibility of walks, letting it out etc but hopefully will be back in school full time if we work hard on the anxiety (panic attacks) but this could take anything up to a year, if at all.

Summing up the problems we had with the rescue dog they were that he had eating issues - he'd been stray so had eaten crap for the duration until we got him so he had both stomach problems involving huge cost in expensive foods and extreme possessiveness over food. He was huge and strong so we had to use harnesses to walk him and even then I could end a walk hardly able to drive as my wrists were so battered and he could steal food/chewable lovely things I loved from just about any surface we owned despite my vigilance in putting things out of the way.

An ideal breed for us would be a whippet. My in laws have whippets and they're great but they've had health issue after health issue and have had £thousands spent on vet bills - mostly insurance but my in laws would spend their last penny on the dogs and their insurance bills have sky rocketed.

Or maybe we're not a suitable family for a dog? I want to be realistic and I don't want to be unfair to any dog that might come our way.

Any wise words to be had? Sorry this is so long

there are plenty of whippet fans on here! You are bound to get some sound information

Before I got to the bit where you said your ideal breed would be a whippet, I was thinking greyhound or Lurcher. Bigger than a collie but not a lot heavier. And they fold up really small when it suits them (usually to fit in your favourite armchair).

I would bear in mind that you will have this dog for a while (10+ years?), so make plans to think about how you would care for it if the girls are no longer around.
I have a Border Terrier - docile to all except the postman - and a working cocker spaniel who - at the age of 6 - has finally quietened down...

I think you have enough to deal with at the moment without getting a dog.

iamme, do you think so? Are we unsuitable? We have worked through a lot of our family problems, I'm not tearing my hair out at the lack of school attendance by my kids. I was kind of hoping that a dog might help with self esteem and confidence.

I'm happy to be told I'm wrong.

If you set the ground rules early i.e if the girls want a dog, then they need to walk, feed, groom etc the dog. Then I think that the increased responsibilty, and getting them out of the house to walk the dog, will do both your girls the world of good. Good luck!

If you do decide to get a dog, please consider a rescue dog. I agree in that I think a greyhound, whippet or lurcher would be the best dog for you. Also, that way you escape the very trying puppy months...

There are lots of gorgeous greyhounds in rescue waiting to be homed. Likewise, there are lots of whippet based lurchers in rescue. We adopted a whippety lurcher from a greyhound rescue trust - he is the best dog ever, quiet in the house, well behaved when out on walks, gentle, biddable, eager to please, just perfect!!

Dogs are great at helping troubled kids come out of themselves and gain confidence and a sense of responsibility. I've seen it so many times. Can't advise on breeds as I only know collies (and they would be very unsuitable), but good luck with everything.

Get a labrador. If you get one that's bred from working stock it will be quite small. They are soooo loving and they never attack. They need lots of exercise, which would be great for your girls, and they can never get enough love. They are also very trainable. (They do steal food, but if you put it out of reach you'll be fine - they won't be able to reach as far as your last dog).

You could contact Labrador Rescue, or see about adopting an ex-Guide dog ....

I really do think that you sound like a dog would do your family the world of good. It would certainly help with your dd's anxiety (imho) as it would be such an enormous distraction. good luck OP. it think it'll all be great

I dunno, my rule of thumb for a dog is generally:

• can I just pick it up if it is Being An Arse?
• does it need lots of walking?
• does it need lots of grooming?

The correct answers to those being yes, no and no. Dogs can be a lot of work and the key thing is not to bite off more than you can chew. Fwiw, we have a Scottie, which ticks the correct boxes though is not everybody's ideal dog, being stubborn and as thick as pig shit possibly dim and not terribly easy to train. Or, not possible to train, depending on how honest you are being with yourself. But incredibly staunch, loyal, big-hearted little dogs.

Mrs mcenroe totally agree about labs. We are on waitng lists for labs due later in year and I am totally smitten with the breed. But have to admit to loling at r3dh3d's description of her scottie!

Another lab owner here who is in love with the breed but they are very string, our boy is 5 stone and not overweight, has to be walked on a halti and I couldn't have handled him as a skinny teenager plenty meat in my bones now

Strong not string

My word of advice would be make sure you don't end up with a dog that is prone to any kind of anxiety, as I think human anxiety and dog anxiety can feed off each other. Lots of greyhounds seem to be very calm, fairly unflappable dogs.

If you have someone lolling around in bed then a whippet (or greyhound) would be very happy there

We have a rescue whippet who we adopted at 12 months old and is just the best ever. However, whippets are quite hard to find in rescue as they are such superb dogs that few people ever want to give them up. We have just adopted a lurcher though as a pal for our whippet - who is not more than an inch taller than whippetty, but much clumsier and there are plenty of these in rescue. We think she may be a whippet x greyhound as she looks like a greyhound with short legs .

I have had another think about this and I have changed my mind.

I have a lab and he is great and as the household you live in is, as it is, I think the schedule of feeding walks and brushing and playing and cuddles will only enhance it.

Labs are indeed strong but we have had ours on a halti since about 3 months old and although he will still pull a tad he knows his head will be turned and walks really well.

My first answer was knee jerk and in the future I shall think before replying.

If you wish to know more about the halti please ask.

Do be aware of the cost of a dog, food, insurance and all the initial jabs etc etc etc.

Also a crate. I was against this but the breeder said it was a good idea and my pup loved his. He is not in it now as he is 2 but some people keep the crate there forever.......

Hi iamme, thanks for coming back to the thread

I know all about haltis, we used them with the last dog. We used a crate too (blummin' huge it was!) but he never really took to it. He was in it at night but not during the day when I was working which was when all the chaos happened unsurprisingly.

A lab is too big I think. I think perhaps a whippet X would work? Not easy to find probably but I'm prepared to travel to pick up the right animal.

The other thing is that we have two rats at the moment and we'd have to wait until they were gone before we got a dog. They're 18months old so getting towards the end of their expected life span so we're looking at the end of the summer as the earliest to get a dog if we decide to go ahead.

Oops, that was me (scoundrel).

MrsMcenroe: Labs 'never attack' - you cannot say this about any breed. Most dogs never attack!

I too immediately thought greyhound. They need much less exercise than a lab would, are generally docile, mild, placid creatures (but with a goofy sense of humour in most cases!) and are very loving and sweet. I have yet to meet one I don't like (I can't say that about any other breed and have worked with dogs all of my life).

An added benefit is that many greyhound rescues are extremely conscientious and most are fostered before rehoming so you really do have an insight into the dog you are taking on. If you go down the rescue route make your family needs clear to them - many might assume that with older children and someone home most of the time you are able to take on a more challenging dog than would be suitable in reality (given the needs of your daughters).

Good luck!

I have a whippet and she's only ever cost (bar usual vet fees) £130 having her leg stitched back together.

My Dad's has thus far cost nothing in illness or injury, despite her trying her utmost to seriously maim or kill herself

Greyhounds walk nicely on a lead and are very healthy dogs however they are very, very strong when they do chose to pull i.e if they see a rabbit to chase. But they're very easy going, lazy, friendly dogs. But then whippets are also very muscular and strong when they do chose to pull. Mine is tiny, the tiniest whippet anyone has ever seen. I'm not entirely sure she is a whippet, I suspect she may be some sort of strange cat hybrid , she can still drag my tall 8yo across the grass if she sees another dog she wants to play with.

Upsetting link. Labradors can and do bite, just like all breeds if they are not treat with the respect that they deserve but I am sure OP knows that

The statement 'Labs never attack' also had me worried as ohbugrit said most dogs never attack, but there is a risk with every single dog regardless of breed. There are an increasing number of labs out there who have been acquired by people who believe that they are a safe breed and have therefore not bothered with training and socialisation - these dogs then become very nervous and can bite in certain situations and I have the scars to prove it.
It sounds like one of the big reasons for getting the dog is to help your daughter with her anxiety and there is lots of evidence that pets in particular dogs can help children/ teens with a variety of problems. Is your daughter seeing a psychologist for this if so the best approach would be to talk to them about how involved your daughter should be in the choosing process.
I do know of several very successful cases with girls with anorexia and in these cases the psychologist has advised that the girl is very involved in the choice of dog be it a puppy or rescue.

Hi Lizcat - yes she's seeing a psychologist about once a fortnight.

Are whippets really that strong then?!

They're very muscular. My Dad's (who is a normal sized whippet) can pull my mum off of her feet, but she is a nutter (the dog, not my mum, although... ) and pulls like the clappers all of the time and also jumps and twists at the end of her lead, when she gets excited, which is most of the time.

Mine is tiny and can only pull over small children, but she is remarkably strong for her size.

In the main part they do walk nicely on a lead and don't really try to pull, it's only if they spot 'food' such as rabbits or squirels that they will try to pull away.

Yes, very good point about any dog being capable of attacking and I realise that my comment was a bit flippant - sorry. I have never personally known a lab that was anything other than totally soppy and loving, but that is because they were trained properly and owned responsibly. Socialisation and training are indeed absolutely vital. One of my dogs was horrendously mauled by 2 ex-racing greyhounds who were quite clearly incredibly nervous and highly-strung, which was a truly horrible experience (judging by the owner's attitude at the time of the attack, the dogs were not treated well at all and I did report it to the police but they were unable to track the owner down).

I also agree that some dogs can pick up on human anxiety - a friend of mine recently had to rehome her dog as it was picking up on my friend's relationship problems with her boyfriend. The poor dog was so anxious that it started biting other dogs, then people. Fortunately it is now safely rehomed but it was a horrible experience for everyone involved, including the dog.

My lab (properly trained!) visited my mum in hospital when she was still alive, and the ward sister let some of the other patients come to see her - it was lovely, and obviously very therapeutic as the patients all had big smiles on their faces afterwards and the dog had a very sore tail from all the wagging . There might be some sort of "Canine Care" or similar scheme in your area OP, whereby a dog could come and visit your girls and get them used to the idea of having a dog in the home full-time ...? Just a thought.