Reached a complete impasse with Dsis over the dog - what do I do?

[musicposy]

I've always been very close to my sister and we meet regularly. We've often tended to go to her house more as her DH has a disability and so it's a bit more effort for him.

Our elder dog is very happy to be left for short periods. He's nearly 10 and likes the peace and quiet; if he sees us going out he makes for his crate pronto!

Our young dog, however, wants to go everywhere with us and breaks her heart if we leave her at home. My parents live next door and tell me she barks and howls solidly when we are out. Leaving her for short periods and building up doesn't seems to help. DAP diffuser doesn't seem to have helped either. Plus she was spayed just over a week ago and really hates the collar so I am keeping her with me and keeping an eye on her so she doesn't bite her stitches.

We were due to go to Dsis for lunch today. I phoned her to say we would have to bring Poppy in the car because I couldn't leave her here for hours unattended particularly with stitches. What we've done before is taken turns to sit on the car with her (they won't have her in the house) except for when we eat - when I admit she does howl.

Dsis said she'd made her mind up that they will not have Poppy on the premises at all any more and sorry but we couldn't come if Poppy was going to be in the car, because it subjects their neighbours to howling/ barking. They also don't like us taking turns to sit in the car as they think it's rude when we've been invited down there. I asked her to ours for lunch instead but they said no.

We were planning to meet up for New Year but hadn't arranged venue. Dsis said "you're coming to us for New Year?" I said I can't leave Poppy at that time of night to bark. She said they wouldn't have her there on the premises and she was sure our neighbours wouldn't notice with all the fireworks. I think all the fireworks is the very reason not to leave the dogs. I said they could come to ours but she got upset and said no, she thought I was going to theirs.

This all seems to have flared up recently. I've got more reluctant to leave Poppy at all as she hates it so much, and they've become more reluctant to be around her at all. When they come to us the dogs are kept under really strict control because I know they don't like dogs, but they seem to have suddenly become opposed to coming at all - I suspect because we're not going there.

I can see myself losing the contact with Dsis altogether. Poppy is the puppy I got after a late miscarriage last year and I am so devoted to her. I keep thinking if I'd had a baby no one would have excluded it. Dsis thinks it's only an animal (they're not great animal lovers) and I am pandering far too much and being stupid over it. I think our dogs are family. So we're never going to see each other's points of view.

Sorry, very long!

Why is taking turns to sit with dog weird?

Dog won't be left. Dog barks and howls at home. Neighbours other side of us complain vociforously. So dog comes with us. Dog is not allowed in house or garden of sis. So dog howls in car. What else are we meant to do?

Dog sitter is something I could consider but cost would prohibit this happening very often. So quite frequently one of the DDs stays at home with dog, which I guess we could do more often and still go down there. But I can't see that staying at home with dog is any more crazy than sitting in car with dog/ walking dog there, which is for a much shorter time each.

I do realise that not everyone is devoted to their dogs as I am to mine, which is why I am posting. I know that she is a bit of a baby substitute for me after I went through the most awful time you could possibly imagine. There's no need to ridicule.

If your parents are just next door could they watch your dog?

Dear God, that is the height of lunacy, sitting with a dog.
What happens when you go to work?

Does sound like she's being very rigid to me. My parents are not dog people at all but allow my brother's dog into the utility and everyone visits it there. Lo and behold they now really like the dog!

And if she's still got stitches in it is totally reasonable you need to keep a close eye on her.

You need to train your dog to be happy to be left.

Can't really believe this is real though

Blimey. If it's real, then you have a lot to sort out. You can't sit in a car with a dog. Can't they be trained or something?

moondog I mainly work from home, and on the morning I work out, DH is always in as he works nights. So both dogs are almost never left alone. I realise this could be part of the problem!

Parents will pop in but this seems to wind her up even more. They won't have her in there (except sometimes with me) as their dog gets too huffy.

I never thought sitting with her was odd as we take turns and it seemed less of a sacrifice than one of us staying at home. But maybe I will get one of the DD's to stay home with dog more as so many people think it is...

Am a bit surprised at all the people thinking it isn't real. Posted here rather than AIBU as I know AIBU would be full of people without dogs who didn't get where I was coming from. There's enough people here on doghouse who know me who know I am genuine (really misses DBF at times like this - she would understand!)

Okay. To people without dogs or people who have well-behaved dogs, your problem sounds extraordinary. You might have to run your life like this for a newborn with colic but it wouldn't last. You seem resigned to having someone sit with the dog.

viewofthehills it's definitely been more of a problem this week because of the stitches, so I've been much more reluctant to leave her than normal. I had her spayed now because it's school holiday time so I am much less busy and have the time to keep an eye on her. But I didn't think about how it would impact upon Christmas. My bro is like your parents, happy to have the dog but in back part of kitchen only, where she is always fine. If they would just allow utility room or even garden it would help but in the summer they won't even let her sit in the garden with us, even on the lead. It's their house, their perogative. But does make it hard for us.
Nice to have even someone who gets it

Dog is very well behaved, nkf. Sits perfectly without moving when people come round. Will "stay" until we tell her she can move. Has accreditations from dog training class . Does everything she is told. Just doesn't like being left alone. Plus, you take your DCs with you, no? Your newborn with colic would be allowed to go with you - it would be a strange set of relatives who said you had to leave them at home. So this wouldn't arise. You aren't expected to leave them alone for hours on end, particularly after a major op.

And there you have it. It's a dog not a baby. And she doesn't behave well. She howls and annoys the neighbours.

You may consider your dog to be on a par with a human, but to everyone else she is just a dog. I wouldn't dream of taking my dogs with me when I visit someone, unless they specifically requested I did so (some of my friends with kids like the dogs to come, most don't). People who do not have dogs do not want dog hair and dog smell in their house, or dog wee or worse in their garden.

You need to train your dog to manage her separation anxiety. Everyone has to do this, and it is essential if you are to have a normal life. It really isn't normal to sit in the car with a dog. Until you have done that, it is probably fair to accept that when she isn't invited someone will have to stay at home.

I think you need to teach your dog to be OK on her own, if the methods you've tried so far haven't worked maybe try a behaviourist. You may find that treating your dog like a baby (understandable given the circumstances under which you got her) isn't actually doing you, or her, any favours. Separation anxiety can take a long time to deal with but it can be done and even very anxious dogs can learn to settle happily on their own.

I say this as someone is dreading leaving my fluffy baby cat at home today while I go to visit my Dsis

You type "separation anxiety dog" into Google and start getting your life back. It will take months but it is far kinder to train a dog to accept being apart from you than to ever have to force the separation which will happen, you cannot possibly hope to never ever leave her alone. The constant worry about her nerves, your neighbours, your family etc will start to put a strain on your relationship with the dog so start dealing with it properly sooner rather than later.

Good luck.

I agree you need to work on overcoming the separation anxiety. Can you get a behaviourist to help you with this? I know you say you've tried some approaches, but sometimes with a very fearful dog it's important to do it exactly right or you just make them more stressed. Also you sound very anxious yourself, she's probably picking up on that!

You might also want to look into dog sitters/boarders for when you need to leave her for long periods (e.g. New Year).

I do sympathise with the problem - though I think it's quite rude to imply that other people here are less 'devoted' to their dogs because they wouldn't manage the situation in quite the same way you do. I absolutely think dogs are family, and I love mine more than anything or anyone in this world. But even I think it is very odd to go and visit someone, and then spend half your time there sitting outside in your car!

I normally stay at home when DP goes to visit BIL/SIL as they don't want a dog in their house - though this is no bad thing, it provides me with a convenient excuse not to have to listen to their kids screaming all afternoon

musicposy reading your OP it does seem that you would be sad if you lost contact with your dsis over this. Did you go and visit them for lunch yesterday? Have you managed to salvage any plans for New Years Eve? If you want to maintain a relationship with your sister you need to accept without resentment that you can't take your dog to her house and organise a dog sitter in the short term, and a dog behaviourist in the long term to deal with Poppy's separation anxiety issues.

Sitting in the car when you go to visit is rude imo and I would be upset to say the least if my sister behaved like this when she came to visit.

I'm very sorry to hear about your miscarriage.
With kindness I think you should think about your relationship with Poppy. A dog is a dog, and imo it is better and healthier for people (and dogs) to treat them as such.

I thought I was a puppy nut, but really dog sitting in the car when you visit, I am sure your Dsis thinks you are being funny awkward and not serious.

I am with those who say you really need to train your dog to be less anxious when you are away from him/her. It can't be nice for the dog to be that worried when you're not there. The puppy does need a dog behaviour therapist as has already been suggested wisely by others if you don't know how to help the puppy yourself.

Ultimately you need to train your dog to be left without howling for the dogs sake as much as yours.

I don't think you're wrong under the circumstances to not go to your dsis at the moment however you are being ridiculous if you don't intend to change your dogs behaviour.

Am I the only one who thinks there is a bit of a power struggle going on here between the sisters?

I cannot believe the OP and her dh would take it in turns to sit in the car with the dog, when visiting the sister. That is preoposterous, and as others have said, quite rude as well.

I also can't understand that given the bizarre sit-in-the-car-with-the-dog routine, the sister won't relent and allow the dog to come in to her house! I KNOW some people don't like dogs...I get that...but I think it's rare the person who would see their guests take it in turns to sit in the car, rather than just letting the dog in.

I think both the sisters are being badly behaved over this one.

I don't think anyone has the right to expect someone to bring their dog into other peoples' homes, I don't think the sister is being unreasonable, it's her home, her garden, her husband, her choice. I would find it odd if someone insisted on bringing their pet to me for dinner.

Although I did bring my puppy to brothers for Xmas but they have a dog and I kept mine in the crate apart from a couple of walks inbetween so she didn't cause a nuisance. I wouldn't have been offended if they had said no though.

Pictish why can't you understand why someone would refuse to have a dog in their home? I can, and I'm a dog owner. Perhaps her sister has nice carpets, and is very house proud. Dogs stink, and shed. I love mine, but I'd never for a minute expect anyone else to.

I love my puppy but apologised to visitors for having brought her to my brothers house on Christmas Day even though they said it was fine. Lucky the whole family are doggy nuts so there was no problem.

Epiphany I certainly didn't mean to imply that other people who leave their dogs are less devoted to them - I'm sorry if I gave that impression. As I said at the start, we have always left our elder dog with no problem whatsoever and I don't think we think less of him. He's been a part of our family for 10 years and much prefers staying at home alone! It's just that, somehow, when we started leaving Poppy when she was young, assuming it would be the same, she started howling and barking. Then our neighbours complained and said they would report us if they kept hearing her and we didn't know what else to do except take her with us because nothing we tried worked. I only mentioned the devoted thing because I suspect her anxiety may be as much a reflection of how I felt about leaving her as she does about leaving me, especially as I got her when I was in a very bad way (lots of back story around the miscarriage that I won't bore you all with!)

That's how we got to this car situation. I'm certainly not trying to behave badly or have some sort of power struggle with sis - I always say she's my best friend. I certainly have to overcome this somehow as I can't lose my relationship with her. It's not just DH and I - there are 4 of us - so we figured if we took half hour turns we would each only be out for half and hour out of every 2 and that didn't seem too bad. When it's the girl's turn they often take her for a walk with their cousin and they all seem to enjoy it, so up until now it hasn't seemed too much of an issue. And that's how we've gone on for ages now, until sis has said we can't have her in the car there.

I don't blame her for not having Poppy in the house - it would be easier but I can quite understand that they are not animal lovers and don't really like dogs. I'm aware that even people who do like dogs don't necessarily want other peoples! I'd just got to a point where I didn't know what else to do.

I can't see we can do anything else now until she's over this op and not trying to attack stitches. But I think long term we will talk to our dog training class lady (who is fantastic) about separation anxiety. It's interesting that people say it will be better for the dog too - I hadn't thought of that.

Interestingly I do think doghouse is very much different to this time last year when I posted about leaving Poppy with friends for New Year and Budgen at home under the eye of our parents and was absolutely slated - told roundly by virtually everyone who answered that I should be staying at home with them and dogs shouldn't be left for any period of time! It's from doghouse that I've got into feeling I shouldn't be leaving them. So I've been quite surprised at the way the answers have gone on here... but I will talk to our trainer about separation anxiety.

musicposy it certainly will be better for your dog to be comfortable to be left for a period of time.
Re separation anxiety just leave the room and shut the door and then immediately come straight back in, keep doing this and ignore the dog when you leave and when you come back. Gradually increase the time you are out of the room - hopefully just before the dog begins to react do this over and over again until the time the dog can be left is longer.

I can see you dilemma though trying to keep your sister happy, the dog happy and you still trying to enjoy the day.

Was the thread last years also about the fireworks rather than just leaving your puppy for a bit?