Reached a complete impasse with Dsis over the dog - what do I do?

[musicposy]

I've always been very close to my sister and we meet regularly. We've often tended to go to her house more as her DH has a disability and so it's a bit more effort for him.

Our elder dog is very happy to be left for short periods. He's nearly 10 and likes the peace and quiet; if he sees us going out he makes for his crate pronto!

Our young dog, however, wants to go everywhere with us and breaks her heart if we leave her at home. My parents live next door and tell me she barks and howls solidly when we are out. Leaving her for short periods and building up doesn't seems to help. DAP diffuser doesn't seem to have helped either. Plus she was spayed just over a week ago and really hates the collar so I am keeping her with me and keeping an eye on her so she doesn't bite her stitches.

We were due to go to Dsis for lunch today. I phoned her to say we would have to bring Poppy in the car because I couldn't leave her here for hours unattended particularly with stitches. What we've done before is taken turns to sit on the car with her (they won't have her in the house) except for when we eat - when I admit she does howl.

Dsis said she'd made her mind up that they will not have Poppy on the premises at all any more and sorry but we couldn't come if Poppy was going to be in the car, because it subjects their neighbours to howling/ barking. They also don't like us taking turns to sit in the car as they think it's rude when we've been invited down there. I asked her to ours for lunch instead but they said no.

We were planning to meet up for New Year but hadn't arranged venue. Dsis said "you're coming to us for New Year?" I said I can't leave Poppy at that time of night to bark. She said they wouldn't have her there on the premises and she was sure our neighbours wouldn't notice with all the fireworks. I think all the fireworks is the very reason not to leave the dogs. I said they could come to ours but she got upset and said no, she thought I was going to theirs.

This all seems to have flared up recently. I've got more reluctant to leave Poppy at all as she hates it so much, and they've become more reluctant to be around her at all. When they come to us the dogs are kept under really strict control because I know they don't like dogs, but they seem to have suddenly become opposed to coming at all - I suspect because we're not going there.

I can see myself losing the contact with Dsis altogether. Poppy is the puppy I got after a late miscarriage last year and I am so devoted to her. I keep thinking if I'd had a baby no one would have excluded it. Dsis thinks it's only an animal (they're not great animal lovers) and I am pandering far too much and being stupid over it. I think our dogs are family. So we're never going to see each other's points of view.

Sorry, very long!

Awww musicposy, you sound like a nice person, stuck with a dilemma to me. Dogs are just dogs, and like to feel happy and secure with whatever routine you need to work with. Once Poppy learns that being on her own is only temporary, and crying is not the answer, you will be happier, she will be happier, and life can get back to normal. Having a dog doesn't have to mean having no life, and don't for goodness sake fall out with your sister over it. Explain the dilemma, explain what you are doing to address it, and if need be defer the visit until either you can get a sitter or she's had some training. Are there any local teenagers who'd dog sit for you? I used to dog sit as a kid, and I charged peanuts as I enjoyed it.

Hi Musicposy, I do understand.

I think you have two problems - a sister problem and a dog problem and they will need to be tackled separately.

Also, you have a short term issue that Poppy has stitches. I'd not be happy to leave a dog with stitches (even if it was oK the rest of the time). I'd also not leave our dogs on NYE because of the amount of fireworks/bangs etc. but I would have made this clear very much longer ago. If your DS only checked you were coming quite recently then is this a casual thing for you both? I'm completely unbothered by NYE but for some people it's a huge party night and v important so you need to assess the degree of importance for you attending/hosting.

Longer term, your DS absolutely has the right to say - no dogs in my house. You may not like this but it is absolutely her right, and taking it in turns to sit in the car is a bit "crazy cat lady" . Why not just one of you visit until the SA is resolved? Or arrange a dog sitter that your dog likes and is comfortable with? However, along with your DS right to say No dogs you also have the right to point out the consequences - this could be less frequent visits, shorter visits or visits by less than the whole family. We have a relative who insists on no dogs in her house so because we have three dogs, our visits must be quite short since we have to allow for travelling time each way as well as the time we spend with her. She accepts this perfectly happily as a consequence.

I think sorting out the dog's SA is only part of the story here - even if that is resolved, you and your DS need to keep talking about expectations when visiting over Christmas and New Year. Can you make up wiht some extra visits when Poppy's stitches are out? Can you suggest some days out in a mutually convenient place with good access for BIL and space for dogs?

Please do talk to your trainer about the SA - not being able to leave a dog could be a really difficult issue to live with and as others have said, Poppy will be happier if she can settle nicely when you need to pop out for a couple of hours. I would never advocate leaving dogs for a long period but ours are very happy when we pop out for shopping, visits, errands etc especially once they've been exercised and fed - snores all round then. Taking your dog in the car is fraught with other issues too - too hot in the summer and a much greater risk of theft.

Hope things can be worked out.

I don't think there was any reason for some posters to be so rude and patronising in their replies. This isn't aibu, it's a section for dog lovers, so if you can't empathise with someone who makes their dog's welfare a major priority, why bother posting here?

OP I do agree with what others have said that for your dog's welfare as well as your own, you need to tackle her separation anxiety. There's good advice here, but maybe a decent behaviourist would be helpful (someone who uses positive methods only, with no mention of dominance or pack theory).

Have a read of this - you might find it helpful. Hope you sort it out.

Thank you so much for the recent replies, I feel much better now. :) I did think at first I'd posted in AIBU by mistake.

Our dog training classes where Poppy's done her good citizen stuff are very good, all positive reinforcement, no pack theory. We had a one to one session with the lady there when our dogs were fighting which was worth every penny as she concentrated on them getting to view each other's company as a good thing with rewards - it worked really well. I'm confident in asking her.

I wouldn't leave the dogs for long periods in any case. I work from home mainly and when I am out in the day DH is home asleep (which, weirdly, Poppy is fine with and just sleeps too). We take them on holiday with us and when I posted last year about NYE I did need to take on board what everyone was saying about not leaving them on a night with fireworks etc. I'm very grateful for what was said then; it did me good. I'm guessing the separation anxiety advice here will be the same. I've always just worked round it with Poppy. She loves coming out in the car but it isn't always practical, as you say, Scuttlebutter. I'm terrified of her being stolen which has encouraged me sitting with her!

I take on board that the sitting thing is a bit extreme. (Lol at crazy cat lady ) For the time being, until this is sorted out one of the girls can stay at home or I'm sure one of DD1's friends will do it for a small amount of cash if we all need to go.

Sis is the kind of person who won't be pinned down with arrangements until the last minute and this is how we've ended in this mess of her assuming we will go to hers (which we do 9 times out of 10 to be fair) and me assuming they will come to us because they will realise I can't leave the dogs here that late on NYE, especially knowing about the operation. I think it will have to be her come here or not at all this time. DD1 has a friend sleeping over (this too is a recent development!) - I could leave her here but I doubt friend's mum will agree, somehow (DD1 is 16 in a couple of weeks, friend a year younger). Once New Year is over, though, I will get one of the DDs to stay here and the rest of us go if we visit. That way we are compromising. Thanks for the suggestion - it's helped me with thinking this through. :)

minimuu I will start trying as you've said. I've read this advice on here before but always given up because Poppy starts crying the second I put myself the other side of the door. She literally follows me everywhere around the house - is fine when other family members are here but if I'm alone and I go to the loo and shut the door she will panic. I'll start by keeping shutting the door and opening it again and maybe we can make a breakthrough! Crabby thank you for the link.

I think, if I'm completely honest, a part of me has felt needed by her and that's why I haven't persevered with sorting out the SA. People who have said it's better for her not to feel so anxious about leaving me have made me think again. It will be my New year's resolution to tackle it.

Op you sound like a kind and soft hearted person....but to a fault.
Why are you complicating family life ( hard enough for us all ) with such an encumbrance ?

musicposy I've been thinking about you today, I think because I could so easily be in your situation (and DP, despite never having been an 'animal person' until we got our dog, could also easily end up sitting in the car with our dog like a crazy cat lady ).

I absolutely do think that you need to tackle Poppy's separation anxiety, for her sake as well as yours. But I do feel that I should tell you that my cocker is also incredibly strongly attached to us, and barks and howls when left. I'm not sure I'd term it full-on SA - she's not destructive or distressed to the point of pooing/panting etc, but she paces/sits on the kitchen table to stare fixedly at the window (where we'd reappear), and intermittently barks and howls. Luckily for us, I don't often have to leave her for longer than a couple of hours, and we have thick walls so the neighbours say they're not bothered by the noise.

But I have never left her, and would never leave her, for longer than 4 hours, and our social lives have been curtailed because of this - my two closest friends won't have a dog in the house, so we very rarely visit them. Luckily they come to us every so often instead. We can't stay at my parents' any more, because they have a cat - this is a real wrench, because where they live is gorgeous. We've not been on holiday without her since we got her (she's two), but in Feb we're going abroad for a week and my parents are coming down to dog (and child) sit. We're totally traumatised by the thought of leaving her!

Anyway, the point of this is to let you know that you're not alone in how devoted you are to your dog (if you've any doubt of that, after the nasty comments here, then you should definitely read around the site that the thread I linked to is on!). It depends ever so much on the breed and personality of your dog - mine is a cocker, who are renowned for being 'your shadow' and needing to be with you all the time. It's a long time since I peed alone... What breed is Poppy?

Ultimately, for us, we don't feel that we have sacrified much for the dog, because it's a matter of priorities - I'd rather not visit my friends than know that Ddog was really distressed. But then they do come to us, which makes things easier. It sounds as though you and your Dsis need to compromise - I'm biased, but I feel that if she can't acknowledge your family (and yes I do include the dog in that) commitments, then I would reduce contact until you've improved your situation with Poppy's SA.

I hope the link is helpful - there's a dog trainer behaviourist on there (Top Barks) who gives some really good advice. If you can crate train Poppy (disclaimer - I never did manage this with Ddog), then if your sis can't accept having the crated dog in the utility room/kitchen whatever, then I really think she's being VU.

Good luck OP, and don't let anyone make you feel odd or bad about how much you love your dog.

I did a post on separation anxiety here.

It is completely normal for dogs to not want to be parted from their humans or from other dogs, and completely understandable that humans get distressed about the process too, but the fact remains that it is unfeasible and unhealthy to disrupt daily life and human relationships to pander to a dog to such a degree.

Don't get me wrong, I sacrifice a lot to be with my dogs, rush home, never leave them for longer than 3-4 hours etc. but I need to know for my own sanity that they are safe and happy alone for short periods because there are times when you absolutely do have to leave them. Ultimately it is kinder to the dog to teach them how to be alone for short periods.