I think I need to have my dog PTS

[lethimdown]

Namechanged, as I'm ashamed. Some may be able to guess who I am.

I need to rehome my dog. The rescue centres are full, and I have spoken to several who won't take him due to this and also his dog aggression.

They are adamant that he will not find a home because of this. That it is hard enough for the "perfect" dogs to find homes as it is. I understand this. One has advised that he is PTS.

I cannot afford a behaviourist. We are living on less than £300/month. I do not have the time to put in any more training. I have a toddler, am pg, have another dog, an ill mother and a husband who works long hours.

He is generally a good dog in the house (he has never shown aggression to a person) but I can't walk him. My child has almost been injured due to him lunging at other dogs on walks. I can't risk my child (at face-level to the dog) being injured. This is impossible.

Is having him PTS the only option? I can't keep him, there is no question of that.

(And no, I am not a cold-hearted bitch, I love him but I am trying to be pragmatic and put my children first. This isn't working for any of us.)

OK, a few questions and then maybe some of us rescue peeps can think of some options. Yes, this is a bad time of year - one week from Christmas. Many rescues will be suspending sending any dogs out over hte Christmas period, and could well be full to all but emergency entrants, because of the time of year.

The fact your dog may be dog aggressive is unlikely to affect whether/if he could bite your DC. Dog aggression and people aggression are two very different things. To give an example, we have three greyhounds. Two have high prey drives so would try to chase/eat anything small and furry but if you put our bitch with people/children, she is the sweetest friendliest most waggy girl you could meet.

What type of dog is he? What age? How much/what type of walking/training do you do/have you done? Any work with a behaviourist?

There are rescues who WILL take on both dog aggressive and people aggressive dogs and plenty of trainers who work with rescues to help with both of these behaviours.

Short term solutions. On lead exercise. Wear a muzzle. Use a greyhound/sighthound field for off lead exercise. Walk in places/at times where there are fewer dogs.

Longer term, if he came from a rescue ask for help. Put a thread on here or read one of the many threads discussing how dog aggression can be managed.

I know this is really basic, but if this is a recent thing, has he been checked by a vet? Sudden onset of snappiness/biting/growling could be because he is in pain - ears or teeth are often non visible culprits for this.

Are you looking to rehome just this dog or both dogs?

The more info provided, the more likely it is that help can be provided.

Is Zylkene an option?

Oh no - what an awful situation to be in. Muzzle him, use a lupi harness to reduce lunging, and see how that goes for now maybe.

I hope someone can help you

He has been on a Gentle Leader for two+ years now. It is getting out of control. He literally flipped over today going for a St Bernard, growling, foaming at the mouth. I can't control him and I was so scared for my toddler who was literally in the crossfire.

I have not tried muzzling him. I have been advised that this would exacerbate the problem by making him feel as though he cannot defend himself from threats.

To be honest it all just feels like such an effort now I want to throw in the towel. I have been trying to fix him for the last 3 years and have put in much expense, time and emotion. It feels like I have no more left to give and neither of us are any happier.

He didn't come from a rescue. He came from a breeder. It is all my fault, I haven't trained him properly. He is a certain breed that apparently have a disposition to disliking other dogs. I was ignorant when I got him (when my ex got him actually) and despite my efforts I have not been able to manage him.

He has been checked over by a vet for other recent behavioural issues but the dog aggression has been an issue for the last 3 years. It didn't matter so much when I didn't have children but today he almost took my child's face off trying to go for this other dog. I can't handle this. I can't.

I am only looking to rehome him. My other dog is fine.

My friend just advised me that there is a supplement called Zylkene that might help him. She gave it to her labrador when she suffered from stress. Would it help with aggression?

What breed is he?

Sorry, Scuttle, he is a staffordshire bull terrier aged 4, neutered. He used to be walked extensively daily but since we have had a baby we no longer have the time, plus husband changed jobs and works longer now. I am petrified to take him out alone (with or without the other dog) because I am always with my child (cannot afford childcare/dog walkers) and he has form for attempting to attack other dogs who wander up to him. I always call to the owners to recall their dogs but they are not always able to. It makes me angry because he is always on the lead but theirs aren't and I know it isn't their dogs' fault but he just will not tolerate this, he hates other dogs and will go for them if they are in his space.

I have taken him to training classes but cannot afford a behaviourist. I honestly can't. And at this point I just don't feel like I can handle two dogs any more. I am dreading having this baby and having both dogs and one of my children being injured. I just want the dog to have the home he deserves, but I realise this is highly unrealistic because of his aggression towards other dogs. At home he is very sweet, an oversized lap dog by all accounts.

I just can't do this anymore. I have considered that taking him to the vets to be PTS might be the best thing to save him the stress of being passed through rescue only to be PTS anyway.

Hate myself for all of this. I know it's a typical reaction of a stupid cow who can't control or keep her pets. I thought I could handle it but I can't.

So, to sum up, he's a Staffy, aged 4, neutered. Not people aggressive, but aggressive on lead when out on walks. Presumably fine with your other dog? Is other dog a Staffy too? Otherwise healthy, good with children at home. How did he do at training classes? Has he got any recall, sit etc.? Has he had his vax/worming etc?

If you are really determined to relinquish him, then that's your choice, finding a rescue place for him will be possible, but not easy. As you know, rescues are overflowing with Staffies. I will make some enquiries and come back to you. Roughly where in the UK are you? If you are overseas, then I am sorry but cannot help.

Yes that sums it up and yes other dog is staffy. Recall is not great as he is rarely off the lead but he can sit, wait, lie, etc. He is up to date with his vaccinations (booster in October) and wormed.

I am in the south. I can travel.

Thanks.

Here's a question: If I keep him he will only realistically be walked once a day for up to an hour (this is what currently happens), the reason for this is it is impossible to take him out with my child and will remain this way when the second child arrives. It is for the children's safety. Is this enough? Is it a better quality of life than rescue with the possibility of euthanasia?

At honeiva doesn't get a lot of attention during the day. I cannot take the dogs out on errands with me (this would be possible with the other dog as it is much more laid back). They often have to be shut in the kitchen while I am with my toddler in another room. Is this a kinder lifestyle for him than rescue is likely to be?

I am not being facetious, I genuinely want to know if this is workable. Things are horrible for us right now.

Sorry, second paragraph at home, rather than 'honeiva'.

OK,OP try Trudie James at Doris Banham Rescue - they may be able to help. See their website here for more info. Also try Rob at Canine99 - [email protected] or telephone 07800 731770.

As I said in my first post, we are a week from Christmas so it's possible they may ask you to keep woof until after the holiday season.

I have also asked Valhalla to ask about rescue places using her extensive contacts.

Finance wise, are you claiming all the benefits/TC you are entitled to? £300 a month doesn't sound very much for a family where at least one adult is working.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an hour's exercise once a day. Neither is it wrong to have a baby gate between dog and toddler/baby - this is what many parents of small children do.

Even though your DH works long hours, is it possible for him to do longer walks on the weekend with the dog/s, or to do at least one or two longer midweek walks or even a quick spin round the block in the morning? So far, he doesn't seem to feature in looking after the dogs in your posts.

Also, please bear in mind that neither Val nor I would ever suggest a rescue unless they were no kill - that is to say dogs only PTS on the advice of a vet because of severe illness etc. Frankly, your staffie being lead aggresssive is not unusual (lots of dogs are, including one of ours) and is not by itself a valid reason for PTS, though there are vets who would do this and rescues who would too (sadly).

Do you have a garden? Spending 10 or 15 minutes once or twice a day doing clicker training would probably tire him out and be good for both of you. And you do games like recall, tuggy etc.. without having to go for a walk.

Thanks for these numbers. I am torn. We are trying to make it work, it is just so hard and causes so much stress.

Husband walks them daily when he finishes work. Sometimes this will only be for 20 mins if it is very late. I try to walk then for 1/2 hour - an hour in the morning before he goes to work, but currently this time is the only time my toddler sleeps. He is up a lot during the night and I don't get much sleep so sometimes my husband husband gets up with the toddler before work so I can get some sleep and then the dogs don't get walked until the evening, by him, while I put the toddler to bed or if he is back late, he walks them then.

Garden yes but it is small, concrete and on 3 levels. Not suitable for training plus the dog actually escapes from the garden if he is not on a long line (we are renting and cannot make changes to the security of the garden without expense).

Finance wise it is complicated. I am not working and we do claim tax credits although only get minimal as ironically the fact that we rent out our flat (in another part of the country) makes us ineligible for more, despite that actually we do not make much (about £50 a month) profit from the flat. We are in a bad position. We just about afford the dogs but cannot afford expensive trainers etc. Another baby will probably be the nail in the coffin but that's our situation. Neither children planned but nor were redundancies or the dog being aggressive. That's life. Trying to make the best of it. £300 just about feeds us and the dogs and buys petrol for husband to work.

First of all can I just sympathise with you. No one can understand the strain of living with a dog aggressive dog unless they have done so. It is hard, very hard you are trying to make all things work for lots of people animals etc and then a dog that is very difficult to live with.

YOU have not made your dog like he is - some just have a tendency so do not beat yourself up about that (although I know that is easy to say and not to do).

Is there one particular incident that has happened recently to make you feel like this or is it just the long haul?

I foster many dog aggressive dogs and that is so much easier, as I can be emotionally detached from the. When I decided to keep one of them things felt very different! The looks from other owners, the having to walk on my own, feeling quilty he could not be off with the other dogs etc. However I got over that! and things will get better. If he needs to be muzzled then muzzle him (that is better than the option of him being put down), If he has to walk on a head halter and get no off lead running again for the moment that is fine.

What is he good at? Many dog aggressive dogs are the most loving dogs to humans that I know, does he have things he can do?

I would be amazed if you can find a rescue home unless Scuttle and Val can work miracles (I would not put that past them though).

Go easy on yourself, if the dog has issues then he will need to have a slightly different life to the one you had hoped but he can still enjoy that and hopefully so can you.

If you want to pm me I can try and find a behaviourist who can help and as you at an all time low I am sure they would not worry about a fee.

You sound to me as if you are doing well and your dog is having a good life. give yourself some slack and be prepared that he will have to make allowances for his behaviour but that is fine

Thank you, mini, but it is my fault. My ex bought the dog and didn't want him when we split, so I kept him, but at this time I was at university and working all other hours to pay my rent, so didn't have time to commit to a puppy. I should have rehomed him then when he was little and cute but I thought I could make it work. I was stupid.

Would a muzzle not make him even more defensive? What if he lunged at another dog whilst muzzled and the other dog attacked him?

The incident with the St Bernard yesterday brought it home, really. We have been considering rehoming for the past year after some near misses, having to scoop my toddler up away from him lunging at other dogs. It is clear he cannot be walked with small children. It is not worth the risk anymore. And it is sad for us as a family not to be able to walk the dogs together. It either has to be husband or myself walking them alone.

I just have no time or energy for his issues anymore. I am dreading the new baby arriving. It is awful buf I am.

I want support with rehoming him and we will keep him for as long as it takes to avoid stress for him which could lead to other behaviour disorders. If it takes forever then we will reassess. In the mean time we would be grateful to accept support from a behaviourist but could not pay, although would try to give what we could. I willPM you mini.

Any chance the breeder would have him back? A decent breeder would but if your ex got him from a back yard breeder type then it's probably a non-starter.

I do sympathise. Dog aggression is a difficult issue to conquer and often it's more about management of their behaviour than curing it....which is fine if you in a position to manage. For example, my friend has an extremely dog aggressive large breed so for the last 10 years she has walked him on-lead, muzzled (just in case he breaks free), at odd hours of the day and night and often drives miles from home to quiet woods, beaches or fields where she knows she is unlikely to meet many others. Difficult enough but she's single and has no children so life can revolve around the needs of the dog...not at all practical when you have small children too.

I hope the good people with rescue contacts can find a suitable place for him that have the resources to rehabilitate him and find him a hoome where his needs can be met but his breed and aggression issues are against him as there will be hundreds of other staffies also looking for places that don't have his issues and will be easier candidates for quicker rehoming. However, I firmly believe (and am prepared to be flamed for it) that PTS is NOT the worst thing that can happen to a dog. Life confined to kennels or a life of uncertainly being passed around from pillar to post is immeasurably worse, IMO. And if I could not guarantee the safety and security of my dog's future, then I'd certainly consider euthanasia as a viable option.

He is KC reg and I know the sire's name, but I tried to find the breeder a while back using this information via Google, with no joy. I have the name of the vets where he had his first set of jabs whilst still with the breeder, but when I contacted them they said they couldn't give out the breeder's information, which is fair enough.

They had two or three staffs and 3 kids and it was the first time they had bred. I seem to recall the lady saying she would not do it again (I imagine because it was bloody hard work) so I don't imagine they'd be in a position to take him back even if I could track them down.

It was easier before children. Like your friend, it was not ideal but it was manageable. It is so far from that now.

I won't see him passed around owners and rescues. I will keep him for as long as I can, and try to find a new home for him in the mean time, then reassess if this doesn't happen. Thanks for your comments, IfYouSeeKaySanta. I was expecting a flaming but everyone has been very kind so far considering my predicament. I am very grateful.

lethimdown I've read through this thread.I'll give you my tuppence worth but I doubt anyone on here would agree.
You've got 2 staffies,a DC and one on the way.
You've got a DH who works long hours ,an ill parent, and not even time at the moment to give your dogs the attention they need.

None of this will get easier when you have a new baby.
Your dogs,especially the one in question ,will get less time and attention.There might be jealously between the dogs,due to lack of excercise/time. Even though you know your dogs are good with children (and every Staffie owner I know says their dogs love DCs ,so I'm not staffie-bashing) can you 100% trust them,when a change in your house happens?

You've likely exhausted all family/friend options.
You will be hard pushed to get him in a rescue.
If you do, what will happen to him.How long will he stay there.?There are other dogs with less baggage that your dog.
Will he end up in the wrong hands.Dog aggressive staffie? Fighting/guarding??
When you sign them over, you lose control.

If it was my dog, I'd tell him:
"I can't keep you.I can't guarantee where you'll end up or what kind of life you'll lead. What I can do is ensure your end is peaful,dignified and pain free"

The other posts seem 50/50 that you keep him/train him better/muzzle him.If you haven't got the time ,what kind of life would that be?
Others are re-home. Yes him an thousands of others.

I do have DCs. I'm an animal lover, vegetarian for 31 years.
IMO, the buck stops with me. I would decided the outcome for the dog, based on "I've done my best in his life. The future is out of my hands.The future doesn't look rosy".

I would have him PTS.

You would have a healthy 4 year old dog PTS? That is disgraceful, and you call yourself an animal lover????

The dog deserves a chance to be with a family who have the time to work on him. My dog is wary of other dogs if he doesnt know them, I have spent a long time getting him confident with them, and we are almost there. We will never be 100% there, but time and patience and effort will work with almost any dog.

We all know that rescue centres are full to the brim with staffies, that doesnt mean it makes it right to kill this one ffs.

LordOfTheFlies,
Its taken me a while to calm down after reading your comment, plenty of dogs are adopted from rescues and go on to live a full and happy life and many many MN'ers are proof of this.
She won't be hard pushed to find him a rescue there are people out there and on this thread who will fight tooth and nail to get the dog into a rescue center with a no kill policy.
The small possibility of the dog being rehomed into a bad home and it is a tiny chance with proper vetting is still a better choice then giving up on this dog completely and having him PTS because his owner can no longer look after him.
I'm sorry to say it but I feel its true you wouldn't kill off a human because you can't guarantee them a happy life most of us here are parents and we can't say our children will have a pain free end and happy life but we still have babies.
Yes the buck does stop with you but you can't be animal lover to give up on a dog so soon. In rescue they'll go to great lengths to stop the dog aggressive behavior and so he could end up the perfect family pet.
Honestly I think your opinion of having the dog PTS is pathetic especially as you say you're an animal lover. An animal lover doesn't just give up when things get tough we're in it for life and we don't take the easy option of having a life snuffed out just because things have gotten a little harder on us same way we don't put our kids up for adoption just because we've lost our jobs or they're the school bully and we've got another baby to focus on rather than worry about dealing with unwanted mannerisms.

"I can't keep you.I can't guarantee where you'll end up or what kind of life you'll lead. So instead I've decided to kill you, sorry chum"

hmm

The whole, my partner works, I have two dc and another dog, I don't have time doesn't wash with me, sorry.

I am a LP to two under 5's. I have two dogs (yes, Staffs) and I work. I still find time for my dogs.

It is hard work dealing with a dog that is dog aggressive, but it can be done, with time and effort.

If you really are wanting to keep your dog, then maybe start a new thread asking for advice rather than saying ''Is having him PTS the only option? I can't keep him, there is no question of that.''

If it was my dog, I'd tell him:
"I can't keep you.I can't guarantee where you'll end up or what kind of life you'll lead. What I can do is ensure your end is peaful,dignified and pain free"

What a load of utter bollocks.

You'll be killing a 4 year old dog. Dignified? yeah right.