I think I need to have my dog PTS

[lethimdown]

Namechanged, as I'm ashamed. Some may be able to guess who I am.

I need to rehome my dog. The rescue centres are full, and I have spoken to several who won't take him due to this and also his dog aggression.

They are adamant that he will not find a home because of this. That it is hard enough for the "perfect" dogs to find homes as it is. I understand this. One has advised that he is PTS.

I cannot afford a behaviourist. We are living on less than £300/month. I do not have the time to put in any more training. I have a toddler, am pg, have another dog, an ill mother and a husband who works long hours.

He is generally a good dog in the house (he has never shown aggression to a person) but I can't walk him. My child has almost been injured due to him lunging at other dogs on walks. I can't risk my child (at face-level to the dog) being injured. This is impossible.

Is having him PTS the only option? I can't keep him, there is no question of that.

(And no, I am not a cold-hearted bitch, I love him but I am trying to be pragmatic and put my children first. This isn't working for any of us.)

lethimdown- my heart goes out to you,you are obviously trying to do the best thing for your dog, but your circumstances are working against you. A dog is an addition to the family ,not a liabilty that damages relationships with other people.

You have tried enough and you know what you have to do. Rehousing, for its own sake is the best alturnative to keeping it in the home. You have done enough, you are not a fair weather owner.

3 years ago we got a dog (lab x)with the intention that it would bring evryone together and the kids would learn responsibility, she would also help me walk if i got a bit wobbly. Dog, despite dog training and behaviourist, pulls, lunges,refuses to return,refuses to go out if it doesnt want to.Dh works like your dh very long hours, kids cant handle her and shes too strong for me (ms). Even though she is lovely in the house, I cant manage her and she is my jailer. I'm forever trying to find people/places where she can safely exercise. I dont want to fail her, but it was a bad mistake from the start.
Inthe spring ill take her back to the dogs refuge (like i said that this year), dont guilt yourself over this.

You got a dog with the intention of bringing your family and to teach your kids responsibility??? How irresponsible is that? Despite knowing you have a disability you got a large breed dog who needs a strong hand.

Shocking.

Knickers, I've done my fair share of judging and making clear my views on dog ownership/the whole "I've had a baby" 'excuse' on here under my old alias, and on other forums. It isn't a staffy thing, either. I don't have this issue with walking my other staffy and my child because it is not dog aggressive. When my husband was in his old job there was enough time to walk the dogs separately, so I would walk the non-aggressive one during the day with my son and he would walk the aggressive one at night. We try to do this where possible now but with my mother being ill I will admit there just aren't enough hours in the day.

I have not taken the decision to rehome him lightheartedly. I have Ben made homeless with these dogs before when I was on my own with them, close to Christmas and unable to find a landlord who wouldtske me and them. I didn't rehome them or have them PTS then - I slept in my car with them! When my ex used to batter the dog (yes, the aggressive one), I left him because of this and took the dog with me - I hadn't wanted a dog, I was at university and did not have the time, but I took him on and made sure my life revolved around him after that. When he started to show dog aggression I spent hours on the fields trying to train him, starved so that the dogs could eat and spent my last pennies on training courses (one of which we were asked to leave because of his reaction to one of the dogs there),I had to stay in a room in my mum's house with them and they couldn't go elsewhere in the house because of her cats (this was after begging because I was homeless) and took them out four times a day whilst working full time. I sacrificed my social life - all I did outside of work was look after and train my dogs because I didn't want to leave them again after being out all day at work.

I was never in an ideal situation to have them, it just happened and I tried to do my best by them. Things have changed so much since then and it's not just me and my happiness I have to consider anymore (which is beside the point as I'm fucking miserable anyway).

With my mum I rarely get enough time to look after my son properly let alone the dogs. My marriage is at breaking point because of it - he loves the dog too but we barely spend any time as a family as we're constantly either walking him or both dogs.

A year ago it wouldn't have washed with me either.

Are either of your dogs aggressive? When do you get a chance to walk them with your children and what are your strategies for coping with the aggression? How often/long are they walked daily? I would really appreciate your input as a staffy owner and single parent (just because you probably realistically have less time than I do). Is one always on a lead because of the aggression? This is a big part of our problem and where the risk to my children lies. If he wad off lead he could easily seriously injure another dog then he would be PTS, so it is out of the question (and would compromise my integrity as an owner) to have him off the lead.

Sorry I haven't addressed everyone else directly but I thought I'd make the comment that if I am able to get a rescue to work with him and try and rehome him, I will keep him and try my best to handle and improve the problem (as I have been doing for the last few years). I don't think in my heart of hearts I could allow him, as a healthy and otherwise loving and friendly dog, to put PTS. However this may mean that with my situation as it is at the moment, he doesn't always get walked every day or the attention he deserves. I feel heart wrenchingly guilty about that but I would feel more guilty if he were destroyed 'for nothing', so we will have to cope for now. My friend is posting me some Zylcene to try using on him. I have read up on it and it seems like a good option. At the very least it's worth a shot.

Just as a side note - I actually worried when I was pregnant the first time if I would love the baby as much as I love my dogs. I did, and the rest. My pregnancy wasn't planned, nor was my dog, but I have honestly done nothing but my utmost to try and make it work, I wouldn't have posted here if I wasn't completely desperate and overwhelmed.

Let, you sound like you're at breaking point with all of the 'stuff' going on at once. Don't make a decision in haste because you're snowed under that you might live to regret. Is getting the dog fostered for a while an option?

Sorry if I sounded harsh. I think I was more cross with LordOfTheFlies post if I'm honest.

Yes, one of mine is dog aggressive, but not with every dog, so I never know when she is going to get 'arsey'.

They get let into the garden first thing, then get a good hour or so walk when I get back from the school run. Get let out in the garden at dinner/20-30 min walk if I have the time, and a good run on an evening.

She gets a muzzle put on when we go out, it doesn't bother her.

A good run in the garden would be fine, imho, on rare days you cannot get out. Get a kong and stuff it with all sorts for when they are not getting your attention.

I am by no means an expect, not in the slightest. But i really do think if you are willing to work on this then it may be best to start a new thread asking for constructive advice on it.

Recommending that a healthy 4 year old dog with a solveable behavioural issue is killed is NOT the action of an animal lover.

It was perfectly obvious that the OP was stressed, tired and pretty near the end of her tether, and deserved to be listened to with compassion and respect.

A number of people on this thread (and beyond) have now come up with some fantastic and constructive suggestions. Minimu (who's at Olympia today, bless her - GO MINIMU) has offered help with finding a behaviourist to work with the dog FOC. Some responsible no kill rescues have been suggested, and a discussion about exercise/lifestyle/routine.

OP, please remember that most of us on the thread wish you well and believe your situation can be resolved without your dog losing his life. Please take up Minimu's offer and keep in touch with me if you do decide to rehome. I don't regard rehoming as always a bad thing, often it can work well for the dog, but you need to find the right organisation. Both myself and Val will do our utmost to help you do that. I strongly believe that the right outcome can be achieved that will respect your family commitments and allow your dog to live a long, happy life.

The OP can be proud if she does the right thing and can look her DC in the eye, even if the dog has to be rehomed via a rescue. I very much doubt in years to come if she could do that if she took the option of the needle, because she does genuinely sound like somebody trying to do the right thing.

This is the thing, Knickers, if I could fast forward 5 years to when my son and the new baby were at school, things wouldn't be half as difficult. My mum wouldn't take up time (for obvious, not very happy reasons) and I could devote more time to the dogs. But life happens, doesn't it? Life gets in the way. The bloody garden is useless. I have to take him out there on a long line and because of the layout (steep steps to the top and three small levels with concrete) it is not the kind of garden he can run around in anyway. It's all just crap! They have their Kongs daily which they love.

The thing is, we have been discussing rehoming him for the past year and we made the decision together that this was the best thing for all of us now. It felt like a weight had been lifted when we reached the decision, but as usual, I am now doubting myself because I love the dog and I look at him and think, no, however crap an owner I am I am probably the best you're going to get considering the alternatives.

I don't know. As usual (thanks MN!) this thread has convinced me I can try harder. And I will. I will discuss it with husband when he is home. Dog is currently with his face in my lap next to me. Wish I was a cold-hearted bitch sometimes, it would make my life a lot easier.

Chickens, is fostering not something that would require a long wait, like rescue? Thing is, we can keep him, technically, we will probably be ok and there are many dogs more in need of fostering especially at this time of year I imagine, who don't have my dog's problems to boot.

I still think he would be best off with someone who has the time to work with him properly but I can accept that we might be his best option for now.

Knickers, does your dog mind being on a muzzle? My worry is it will make him worse.

I will start a new thread later in the week if necessary. I am taking advice on another forum on managing the aggression but to be honest we are covering old ground a bit. Without the option of affording a behaviourist there's only so much we can do (I think).

I confess I haven't a clue, let. But I did look in to becoming a foster carer before we got our dog, so I know that you can foster iykwim.

Hi, Scuttle, thanks for your post. I have messaged Mini re behavourist action.

I haven't contacted the rescues that have been suggested on this thread yet. I will do after Christmas. I appreciate the help, I wouldn't know where to start with finding a no kill rescue.

Can't shake the guilt. But no, I won't put him down. It has been a hellish few days. I'm trying.

The other thing that might be helpful, OP, given your mum's circumstances is to have a word with the Cinnamon Trust. They might be able to help find a dog walker to help you as you are currently looking after your mum in what sounds like time limited circumstances.

Please don't feel guilty. You are trying to do the right thing.

We have an extremely dog aggressive dog. He is even aggressive with my other dogs at times, leading to them being injured. The situation is very, very stressful and I openly admit a few days ago I had a bit of a meltdown and asked for help finding options regarding rehoming him.

However... now I have calmed down again, I realise again what I knew all along. Yes, his life is restricted because of the way he is. Yes, my life is restricted because of the way he is. We are working on it and we have seen some improvement, quite a bit in fact. The life he has here is better than the other options available and if I keep him any rescue place he could take up is still available for another dog.

I really do sympathise. I invest a huge amount of time and money into this dog and it is often to the detriment of my marriage, my DH openly admits dislike for this dog. Whatever you can offer your dog, it is better than he would have elsewhere and an hour a day, or even most days, walk is not perfect, but it'll do for now and it is better than a lot of dogs get.

Hopefully Minimu will be able to help with a behaviourist and they will be able to help you.

Midori you have it spot on. A dog may have a restricted life due to his behaviour, once you have accepted that and do not feel the guilt for it you can be more proactive in moving forward.

I have been in contact with a behaviourist nearby but typically she is away until after Xmas. I am looking to see if someone can help in the next few days.

Sometimes just having someone to help takes the responsibility off your shoulders and to help manage some training and encourage you when it feels like you are going backwards is enough to make it easier. Lethimdown you are giving him a good life even though to you it feels like he has restrictions. We need to get a way of controlling him on lead so you feel more confident and if he just gets a short on lead walk in the day until you OH can give him a longer run so be it. It is better than the alternative You must change your name to Superdogownerdespitethecircumstances

Having read this thread I had tears in my eyes Let. I had a dog aggressive dog and I received bad advice from a behaviourist (told to squirt water hard in his face, reduce his 'dominance'). I was inexperienced and knew no better (didn't even know mumsnet existed at the time). I followed the advice and my dog got worse. Became unpredictable until he bit my DD on the face suddenly with me right beside her. I made the terrible mistake of putting him to sleep. I will always regret it. The rescue home (well known one) wouldn't have him back (said they would have to put him to sleep themselves) and my vet recommended the PTS option. It was the worst decision of my life. Even now, over 2 years later, I am fighting back tears. I have another dog now who is gorgeous and I love her to bits but I will never forget my old dog. The vet taped up his mouth before giving him the injection and I saw the terror in his eyes. This image has never gone away and I will never really forgive myself for killing him. Glad you have decided you wouldn't be able to put him down. It sounds like you are actually doing a great job let in the circumstances. Dogs will adapt and if he is great in the home, don't beat yourself up about it. All I would say is be careful of the advice about 'how to treat dog aggression' on the other 'forum' - go with Minimu's behaviorist. The advice I received only made my dog worse. I was told to squirt the water hard in his face at the moment he started to growl at another dog. As a result I think this stopped him growling completely leading to biting without any warning at all.
Good luck and I definitely agree with Minimu about your change of name!

What's the etiquette for posting links to other forums?

I'm going to do it as I think it may help the OP, please report me and have it removed if this isn't ok.

www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?act=idx

This is a forum run for rescues. There are loads of Rescues supported and you can search for rescues in your area. There are also loads of behaviourists on there, but all members are dog lovers. BTW I'm not linked in anyway to them, just valued all the help I've got there in the past. When I first found the website I was at the end of my tether with an aggressive pup whom I was trying to save from PTS. I have saved him, he is now the most gorgeous cuddly pup ever.

If the worst comes to the worst then there is also a section for Private Rehoming - strict guidelines for the use of this, so please read carefully.

Good Luck OP

Just wanted to add my support OP, what a horrible situation for you. I really think you sound a brilliant owner who is really trying with a dog a lot of people would have given up on! Good luck!!

Thanks so much for all your comments. Even reading these words on a faceless forum has been enough to make me put things in perspective and more determined to try with him so thank you. No guarantees, but better than the alternative for now.

midori, it must be amazingly hard that your husband dislikes the dog. It is hard enough for me and my husband likes ours. :( I am trying to stop beating myself up and just making the best of things, you're right, he has it a lot better than many dogs, he is truly loved and cared for.

Zakinthos that is awful. :( Thank you for confirming exactly the reasons I couldn't do it. I have had ill animals PTS in the past and I feel awful enough about that, I could not do it to him while he is healthy. What a shame you got that terrible advice. It is not your fault, you didn't know any better.

Thanks Mrs for the link, will check it out.

Thanks let. Good luck with everything :)

Just a bit of an update.

Circumstances have changed for us in a bittersweet way (this isn't the topic or thread for details really) but we are have been working to try and limit the aggression - or the effects of it anyway.

My husband contacted Rob at Canine 99 and he has very kindly agreed to meet with us to give us some pointers and try and work with the dog. He also agreed it would be nigh on impossible to rehome him.

He said he thought it was strange that the dog is aggressive with both dogs and bitches that are larger than him (not sure if I mentioned above our dog's issue is only with bigger dogs - small ones he's ok with) as normally males are only aggressive to other males. He wonders whether he was attacked by a big dog at some point in the past. I have had him all his life and he wasn't when with me but perhaps he had a run in when my ex took him out. Who knows. But I am wondering whether it's got anything to do with the fact that my ex was violent towards him. Again, who knows. Hopefully we can try and get to the bottom of it.

Scuttle, he wondered where we'd heard of him - I didn't want to say "Scuttle off of that Mumsnet!" so do you want to PM me a name just to let him know? No worries if not, it's up to you.

So that's where we are right now. Crossing fingers and paws for improvement (in time)...

Thanks for updating, I was wondering how things were with you.

I hope whatever has changed for you will help ease your burden with everything, although you did say bittersweet, so apologies if that sounds crass.

Good luck with the dog and behaviourist.

Let, have you tried the muzzle option, even as a temporary measure? My golden retriever (a real softy) HAS to wear a muzzle every single time he goes out, to stop him eating anything and everything. His scavenging habits led to months of tummy trouble. He got used to wearing a muzzle (Baskerville size 9 one - firm plastic) in only a few days.

Although I hate the fact that he always looks like an aggressive type dog when he's out, cos of the muzzle, wearing it has given him freedom. He barely bothers about it now at all. With it on, he can breathe easily, open his mouth to drink even but couldn't possibly bite another dog at all or any person (not that he's got the personality to do that anyway). Other dogs don't seem affected by his muzzle. If he were attacked, he couldn't defend himself but fortunately we've had no encounters with aggressive dogs.

It really has opened up the world for him - and us - obviously with a different starting point than for your dog. But I wondered if you could get your dog to wear a muzzle for a while, until the aggression gets sorted out. Then, if he lunges towards other dogs, at least you know no damage will be done and it might make it easier to take him out. I know this won't be the ultimate solution as your dog needs to be able to calm down and relax with other dogs rather than believe he has to defend himself - but as a short term option, it might be worth trying. Good luck

Hi Solo, the trainer wants us to bring a muzzle for him when we meet him. He has recommended one for the same reason (peace of mind that no damage can be done to other dog's), and I'm willing to give it a try but I'm concerned that our dog's body language would still be threatening to other dogs, and if one went for him because of this he would have no way of defending himself. Plus there's the whole thing about him being a staffy on a muzzle. We'll look like right chavs walking him. Still, we'll discuss all of this with the trainer. None are reason enough not to try it at this stage. We're taking him to be measured this weekend.

Ignore the errant apostrophe - my phone keeps turning dogs into dog's. Most annoying.

I'll go at this from the other point of view ,I am the owner of a poor harmless sweet natured puppy that was attacked by a mature male Staffie in November.The Staffie ran a 100 yards to attack my pup that was walking nicely on a lead. No good telling me that the dog is not people aggressive as getting between him and my pup got me bitten and his owner also. If you try to break up a dog fight you stand a very high chance of being "accidentally " bitten. My puppy was gripped by the neck for over 10 minutes while people tried to beat off the Staffie, he lost his grip for a second and I got nobbled failing to get mine away in time. Some of the blows landed on my boy by accident. As a dog lover when the police came and asked me what I wanted done, it was simply pay my vet bill, and the Staffie must be properly and securely harnessed, muzzled and not allowed of lead. The owner agreed, paid my bill but they have not muzzled the dog. For several weeks my pup has been nursed back to confidence with nice dogs and appears mostly OK but I look where I am going and will never be able to take him to shows where Staffies may be present as he is very scared if he sees one in the distance.
I found out later that the Staffie has attacked several other dogs before, if he had been muzzled my boy would have just had a scare not a life changing attack which endangered everyone present. The owner bred the dog and his dam is also aggressive.
I feel I made a mistake and should have pressed for police action. Responsible ownership of a potentially aggressive dog consists of completely preventing harm. muzzle and lead, no free exercise. Dogs can learn to be perfectly happy with a restricted life, they will adjust quite quickly. I hope yours does too, there really is no option but to use a muzzle.

Thanks Eliza, I hope your puppy recovers well and doesn't develop dog aggression as a result of his attack - which is possibly why mine did. :(

Although I have to disagree that the dog may not have been 'people aggressive'. You are right in saying that there is a high chance of being bitten when breaking up a dog fight but that does not make either dog 'people aggressive' as opposed to dog aggressive.

My dog has never attacked another dog as he is never off the lead. He was once approached from behind when being walked on lead by an off lead dog. He was taken by surprise from around a corner by this dog and he went for him, but luckily my husband was able to pull him off as he had control via the lead (despite being pulled over in the mud!) although as you say, he did sustain minor injury to his hand.

We will see how it goes with the muzzle. Thanks for your comments. I do hope your dog's attack hasn't made you too wary of staffies though. Most will play nicely with your pup. Mine is lovely with pups and dogs smaller than himself. Just hates dog's that are bigger than him. :(

DOGS MINUS APOSTROPHE FFS!