Pointy hounds thread! For new, old and prospective owners!

[SpaghettiTwirlerAndProud]

Share stories, advice and ask for help if you need it! There are a few resident hound experts (myself not included) in the doghouse, so, feel free to share! :)

Hi Lost, hope the training went well.

Yes I've heard of Pup Aid. It was set up by TV vet Marc Abrahams. Nothing wrong with it - a bit celeb driven for me but there may be an argument for saying that's how to reach potential pup purchasers. Wouldn't say it was a campaigning organisation in the same vein as say Puppy Love or Cariad but there's plenty of room for different approaches.

I think the real work is being done at the moment trying to get the new breeding regs tightened in Wales. Unfortunately I am beginning to hear whispers that a tidal wave of pups from Eastern Europe will be coming in shortly - obviously conditions there will be virtually impossible to check. That will make the current issues with Wales seem like a walk in the park.

So how do people buy the Eastern European pups? Online?

Nice, the most important thing is to have a non-wriggle collar. Either a leather sighthound collar (the traditional type) or one of the martingale collars. Both are safe and effective for pointies if fitted well. NO EXTENDING LEADS. EVER. They can (and have done) break a pointie's neck. Leads should be high quality and checked regularly. Always make sure the loop is securely fastened round your wrist. I'm right handed, so loop goes round right wrist, right hand holds slack of lead, dog walks alongside on my left hand side. Left hand holds lead gently above greyhound's collar. In this way I walk three pointies when DH is away. You cannot entirely prevent excited sighthound plunging after rabbits. What you can do is:- be aware. Pay attention to surroundings. No gassing on the phone or being lost on your ipod. If you spot a squirrel/rabbit/small furry creature of choice before hound, be prepared. Make sure leads are held gently but firmly in left hand and check your balance. Personally I wouldn't allow a child to walk a pointy unless it was safe to do so (ie in an enclosed environment where a sudden hurtle wouldn't end up under the wheels of a car/train/tractor, or on a beach with plenty of room) .

Sold via the usual online outlets - essentially a wholesale operation. Most pups sold on internet are bought and sold via wholesalers/dealers. Many puppy farmers have no "retail" customers at all.

Right, ignoramus warning (me, that is.) I am prepared to be stood corrected.

I had an interesting chat with a lady today about how they want to reopen Walthamstow Dog Track, round our way. I think she assumed I'd be against it automatically and I don't know if I am. Even having an ex racer I can see the appeal of going 'to the dogs' and in essence, it's the conditions they are kept in and the injuries they can suffer that I feel unhappy about, not the institution as such... Sorry if this is a bit confused - I am confused about how I feel about it all.

I can't believe people actually buy puppies online. I mean, I know they do but it feels so wrong!

Sometimes the DSs want to 'hold the lead'. They are much younger than yours but they are allowed to hold the looped handle at the end of the lead and I loop the lead around my own hand halfway down. The lead is then held in two places. So they feel as though they are holding the most important part and I maintain control. Our lead is long though and adjustable with a buckle, like reins. And I never let them do it for long.

Betsy, there are many views on racing within the greyhound rescue fraternity. Obviously all the RGT branches are directly funded from the racing industry, so you will never see a RGT branch/website being critical of the racing industry. In fact they will usually defend it.

There is nothing intrinsically cruel about keeping a dog for racing, and many owners do treat their dogs well. Some aspects of racing life, the regular routines, co-housing with their fellow greys, healthy weight and exercise are arguably better than the life of an obese, lonely dog stuck in a house for eight hours by itself while owner out all day. I have met some very caring owners who are passionate about their dogs. However, there are intrinsic and structural issues that need to be considered.

Many campaigners would say that the racing industry is inherently problematic. A large number of dogs "disappear" (that is, shot/dumped) between puppyhood and racing, and then of course after racing. Dogs like ours are actually the tiny minority of lucky ones. There are a number of welfare issues associated with racing itself - in particular high speed cornering leading to leg breaks which almost invariably lead to being killed by vet rather than recovery (not cost effective).

To further complicate matters, here in Wales we have what are called "flapping" tracks - not under the control of GBGB. There are serious welfare issues - NO VET needed to be in attendance, for instance.

I think you also need to consider the fact that the majority of dogs raced in the UK are these days bred and raised as pups in ROI where again there are welfare issues (subsidised by Irish Govt). Irish Govt is seriously considering opening up overseas markets as the industry is in decline in the UK and ROI itself. Many greys end up in Pakistan and there are serious discussions about opening up racing in China. Unfortunately the welfare issues for greys in China and Pakistan are dreadful. There already has been one campaign to try to stop this development but the export of dogs to Pakistan continues. Life there for an ex racer is not a comfy retirement. Ironically, Pakistan culture doesn't "do" pet dogs (regarded as unclean)but they have a thriving dog fighting and dog racing culture.

Structurally, it is impossible to consider the UK and Irish industries as two separate entities and the welfare issues need to be considered in the round too.

Hope this helps. Would be happy to point you to a variety of websites to give you further info.

Yes please to the sites. I think this is going to be a big local question in the near future after the Olympics and I'd like to have an informed opinion on it, not just my 'weeelll, errrr, I don't know' response I gave today!

For racing

Greyhound Board of Great Britain - GBGB here

Retired Greyhound Trust (receives much of its income from GBGB ) here

Against Racing - or with concerns about welfare aspects of racing

Some Welsh research by GRW - here

Greyt Exploitations - site that takes firm anti racing stance with particular page in reference to the Walthamstow situation here

RSPCA has concerns about greyhound industry - see their comprehensive policy document www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232720432601&mode=prd

Dogs Trust - here

Lush Cosmetics here

What I haven't covered is the issue of "working" greyhounds (used for coursing and other similar practices).

Also, I think it's important to distinguish philosophically between animal welfare (eg Dogs Trust) which takes a position essentially of harm reduction or animal rights which says that it is is intrinsically wrong to race animals for financial gain (effectively to exploit them). Someone approaching this issue from an AR perspective would never be happy with a high welfare industry, while an AW perspective would be willing to work with the industry to accomplish change, something that AR would probably be uncomfortable with.

Personally, while I find philosophy interesting, I'm more concerned with the sickening death and disappearance rates in the industry. There is still a huge amount of work to do. Take a look at the Tia Wall of shame here- they record the greyhounds they know about that are from the industry yet still end up as strays, or abandoned. If all charities/rescues were contributing to this, the wall would be huge.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Scuttle . Lots to read there. The wall of shame I think has pretty much made my mind up for me but I shall read everything.

Just looking at our Billy stretched out on his duvet, loved and valued and thinking what might have happened to him makes me feel quite emotional.

Just a quick question to you lovely pointy people: our whippety lurcher needs a bath, and I have no idea what soap./shampoo to use do you just use cheap human, or special doggy stuff or fairy--?

(Our lab gets a bath almost every day in the local loch, but whippety doesn't like getting wet )

My whippety loves having a shower with Tesco own brand baby shampoo, he smells loverly . I actually have to stop him jumping in with the boys every evening.

Scuttle the puppy farm thing is really bothering me and yet I still can't work out what to do. Three people I know have had puppies from the one near us now, it seems no one wants to listen, I know two of them are nasty little dogs as well, very nervy and snappy I am heartbroken at the thought of Eastern European imports, there must be something that can be done

Just had a fantastic walk on the beach though it turns out prefect recall was only a matter of finding the perfect reward. I may not have envisaged a future where I walked around with a pocket full of chopped up raw liver and heart but I was the envy of the beach today with my perfectly trained dog .

Love the pocket full of liver and heart!!

Is the one near you, the one I got the inspection reports for? I think there are several issues, and ways you can tackle it. Encourage purchasers to report back to kennel that dogs are poorly socialised. Maybe discuss with people gently why puppy farming is a problem - perhaps show them the inspection reports. Maybe they didn't know about the scale of the operation, so many dogs being managed by so few people and that it's OK for a licensed premises not to provide bedding for instance.

You could join CARIAD or Puppy Love - both are always keen for volunteers and as you are in Pembs you are perfectly placed.

Consultation is currently open for revised dog breeding regs in Wales - these are the regs that govern puppy farming in Wales. Make sure your voice is heard. PM me if you want to discuss any of the points in detail. CARIAD have a very lengthy, detailed response on their website (I wrote most of it) - feel free to use as much or as little as you wish.

The other thing that is really important is to gently and positively support the adoption of rescue dogs and to politely question why people think they need a puppy. Every puppy farm in Wales could close down tomorrow if demand fell off. Unfortunately, many many people do buy pups (and many of these will be MNetters) for a variety of reasons, often because they are poorly informed about what is involved in raising a pup or because they think a rescue dog is unsafe with children, unpredictable, etc etc (we've all seen these attitudes here very often).

I'd say that around 80% of puppy purchasers actually want a family pet (rather than being dead set on a pup) and are driven to a pup by a combination of blissful ignorance and misguided status (ooh, he's a pedigree, and he cost £600 - he must be good). A small minority of purchasers - such as people training gundogs - probably will want/need to buy a pup.

Also, most importantly, VOTE. Council elections are coming up in May in Wales. Tell your local candidates that puppy farming is NOT diversification, nor is it acceptable. Find out what their policies are and once elected keep badgering them about it. One of the reasons why dog issues in general are so low down is that politicians believe there are no votes in dog welfare. Help change that perception. Also put pressure on local Community Councils - these are statutory consultees when puppy farms go for planning consent - make it clear you do not approve and ask them to adopt policies that make that clear.

Thanks LostinWales. I have just used a tiny drop of baby shampoo and she is all gorgeous and fluffy. Won't last long ...

Not posted on here before, but saw the bit about leads and when pointies lunge for furry creatures. I use a harness for our lurcher in areas where I know there are lots of squirrels etc. It just seemed so harsh on her neck even with the broad lurcher collar. Although now she wears the harness for some reason she's changed her hunting tactics, so we often get plenty of notice she's spotted something, as she stops dead, watches then slowly stalks before she goes - time to get in front of her and stop her going. We have a lovely fleece-lined harness - not the normal sort - so no rubbing on those thin layers of hair.

Ooh doctorcake where did you get your harness, it's sounds great?

Hello again pointy people and thanks for all the advice :)
I spoke to a lovely lady from Greyhound Gap last week who suggested waiting until DS2 was a little bit older before committing to a grund. I can see her point, but I'm still :( about the lack of a dog in our house.
I've told DH that I will have one (or two or three ) when DS2 starts school in 2013!
Meanwhile I will continue to lurk, and maybe to drag the family out to the nearest rescue to meet and greet the hounds :)

notmostpeople I got it online from Cosydogs, a company in Essex I think. Well made and easy to get on.

We are having slight progress with the stairs! Sprocket now puts his paws up onto the 2nd step to either greet me coming down, or to reach a treat off the 4th step :) we'll get there eventually.

He sat (yes, my greyhound sat ) on my foot this morning bony arsed git :o

We have the same harness doctorcake.

Well done with stairs progress Gritters. Do greyhounds not sit, because they've never been taught, or because of their narrow hips/bony bums? Whippetty didn't know the command "sit" when we first got him, but picked it up quite quickly. Now he does it volunterily whenever he wants to demonstrate what a good boy he is e.g. when ham sandwiches are being prepared .

It looks however, like our search for pointy 2 is back on. We got a phone call on friday from Dogs Trust saying our whippetty lurcher was cleared of nasties (incl. sarcoptic mange) and we could come at the weekend to meet her, mix the two dogs and if we wanted, we could also complete the adoption immediately after and take her home. OK, sayes us, we will come over at the weekend to meet her, but assuming all goes OK, we'd like to bring her home in a week's time when we can take some time off work to help her settle in. So, all well and good. Anyway, on Friday afternoon I spoke to a friend who is a vet and he stressed that we need to be sure she is really cleared of mange before mixing the two dogs as it is highly contagious. We phone DT back on saturday morning to double check this and also to ask a few more questions. Anyway - the rehoming person on the phone this time said, oh yes, the vet has given her the all-clear, but we can't answer your other questions as she has been on minimal handling (due to the mange), so we haven't completed the assessment yet . So basically, they were prepared to let a family with 2 dc's complete the adoption and take her home when her behavioural assessment was incomplete (as they had said we could take her this weekend if we wanted). Tbh, I was a bit shocked by this, so anyway, we have now decided that if they are prepared to send an unassessed dog home with young children, she is not for us and we are now still looking for a second pointy.

(Phew, that was long!)

Well done Sprocket! Brave boy! This is progress.

Arf at him sitting on your foot though.

OMD, greys don't sit because they have very long backs and usually quite big thighs, so it is often quite an uncomfortable posture for them. Most can only sit if they are on a soft surface such as a sofa (or their owner's foot!) and even then will only do it rarely. The ones that do sit tend to be smaller and have slender thighs, not the Thor Hushovd (pause for quick fan and dribbble) thighs that quite a few have.

OMD, so sorry to hear that about the Dogs Trust - they are normally very thorough. Good luck with the continuing hunt. If I can help in any way, let me know.

Thanks, Scuttle. It was disappointing, but otoh, we want to make sure a new dog is the right dog. In this respect, I think the fact we had doubts meant the only option was to walk away and give her (whippety lurcher) the chance to be adopted by someone else.

My foot was bare aswell because I'd just got out of bed. Not even a sock on!

Mother sorry WL didn't work out, I'm surprised that DT would do that considering they are a big organisation! Hopefully your search will end soon and you'll have your new pointy home :)

Couple of questions I keep meaning to ask.

1. Does anyone elses greyhound or other pointy chatter their teeth when happy/excited/scared? Sprocket does this when we're getting ready to go walkies, when he comes over to say good morning, and also when he's about to be picked up to be plopped on the stairs.

1. Why the frig does he feel the need to kick mud and grass everywhere after he's peed? DP is getting pretty annoyed with the bare patches of earth where he does it?

1. Is there anything we can do to stop Q No.2?