PIL's Dog grabbed the arm of newborn DS's snowsuit... Can he ever be trained?

[SchrodingersMew]

So, basically me and DP stay at his parents house once a week, mainly so it is easier for them to see DS as they stay a fair bit away and neither of us drive.

The first time we took DS up he was 2 weeks old, they have a 5? year old Cockapoo who I had already been very worried about as he is snappy and tried to bite me a few times when I was pg.

MIL had been taking DS's snowsuit off when the dog got free and ran up and grabbed the arm of the snowsuit, luckily his arms had just been taken out of it. I screamed at the dog and went a bit mad obviously.

So now he is constantly held back when we are there or we sit upstairs which kind of defeats the point of us being there.

He still constantly barks at DS and tries to get to him, I really don't know what to do as I don't want to stop PIL's seeing DS.

I suggested taking him to obedience classes the other day and was basically told that he will get used to DS and that's just his personality! I have never seen a dog like that with a baby and I am not willing to see if he gets used to him as I don't trust him.

Please help? Thanks.

Mumbling There is no way they would ever re-home him and I would never ask them to go that far. Plus, I doubt they would manage to easily because of his temperment. He barks at anything and anyone he sees from the window, when in the back garden he barks through the fence at the little kids in the next garden, he rips stuff up, he even steals the house phone! He jumps up to sit with you and if you move even a muscle he will growl and show his teeth at you. I done this when I was pg because he had his arm digging right in at my bump and he tried to bite me.

'He jumps up to sit with you and if you move even a muscle he will growl and show his teeth at you' My dog does this. A dog like that should not be allowed on the sofa.

Mine was banned from the sofa for a long while. We are now slowly allowing him back on but only with me for now (he has never bitten me, just everyone else )

He must wait until he is invited onto the sofa. He is not allowed to just jump on. Any growling or grumbling and he is immediately placed back on the floor.

Any growling at the other dogs or people passing him while he is on the floor immediately gets him removed from the family room and he is not allowed back in until he is calm and quiet. He wears a house line so we don't have to put our hands near his teeth when he is being trained.

The problem as usual is NOT the dog, but two very irresponsible owners. Your PIL.

This isn't worth the risk. It really, really isn't.

Yes you need to get the big girl pants on - and lay down the law. You would never, never forgive yourself if the worst happened.

You'll pay for the train for them to come and see you. You'll pick them up at the station. You'll make them welcome, it will be lovely to have them stay once every two weeks, a new fab family tradition.

But what you will NOT do is take your child to them, and put him at risk, because his grandparents are too selfish and blinkered to deal with the problem of what seems to be a rapidly-becoming dangerous dog who isn't being trained properly.

He bit your MIL?! - and they aren't tackling the problem, they don't see a problem.

That is awful. It is unnacceptable. And this is your son, your child, YOUR decision, so you don't have to accept it. That's not a bad lesson for your PIL to learn... you are the parent, they now need to see that it's YOU they need to convince when it comes to your child. They don't get to say 'Oh shush, it's fine'. Not anymore.

It's always the grandparents' dogs, isn't it? Like a bizarre extension of 'we know best' and digging in their heels.

Their poor dog is being served VERY badly here, as is their grandson.

Please stop visiting them until they start addressing the problem!

Dooin I think because he has been freely allowed on the sofa for so long it would be very hard to undo this. :( And I do believe he would bite if anyone tried.

Shouty We have no room for them to stay here, that's why we stay there but we are waiting on a house and are at the very top of the list for a place next to them.

You and everyone else is right though, either they tackle the problem or I stop going there. I feel bad for DP as I know he loves his time there but he too is obviously seeing the problem.

Okay, just going to see if my big girl pants still fit. :o

And I wouldn't know if it's always GP's dogs. I've never met a dog who mis-behaved so much!

My dog was always allowed on the sofa until he bit dd1 for sitting near him. He'd also bite us if we dragged him down by his collar. That's why he wears the houseline.

We used treats to begin with. Hold the treat near the floor and the end of the houseline, if jumps down for the treat, great just give the command. We use "OFF" if not use the houseline to guide him down and treat and command the second all four paws are on the ground.

My parent's dog is equally possesive over the sofa but a lot more aggressive, when she goes for you she means it, Devil Dog mainly warns and has never actually broken the skin. When I trained her I turned it into a game. I had one treat in my hand (anymore than one treat and she'd have attacked me to steal the treats, she really is not a nice dog at all) I held the treat close to the floor and when she got off the sofa gave the command "OFF" then got another treat and held it on the sofa giving the command "ON". I wouldn't use a houseline on my parent's dog she's too quick and would just fly to the end of the line to savage me She now gets off with the command and you no longer need to spend half an hour negotiating with her and worrying you are going to bitten.

Can I ask, what is a house line? Sorry, I am really inexperienced with dogs.

Here It's basically just a short lead that is kept on at all times but has no handle so the dog cannot get it's legs caught in the handle and hurt themselves. We just use a cheap nylon lead from Poundland and cut the handle open.

Ahhh, okay thanks. :)

Talking to DP about this all just now.

I did try clicker training with him when I was pg but it failed because no one else would keep it up or would go against my actions. :( Googling dog behaviourists just now.

Any tips on what I should look for?

I wouldn't be at all confortable being around a dog like this myself, let alone with a baby. He desperately needs training. If he can't be shut in a room without destroying it and is baring his teeth at people for moving I wouldn't have him anywhere near a child. It's not his fault - he's not a 'bad' dog - your ILs are shit owners. He has no idea how to behave and happens to own some very sharp teeth. They're being terribly unkind to the dog - happy, contented animals don't tear a room apart if they're left alone.

If you end up not taking your child to see them because they won't get him the help he needs that will be their fault.

They should be APDT (association of pet dog trainers) registered. Run far and fast from anyone who uses the words "Alpha" or "Pack theory". The training should be focused mainly around rewarding the good and ignoring or diverting attention from the bad and should not be punishment based.

I have two dogs (labradoodles, so similar gene pools to this dog) and a one year old. My dogs are 4 years old but originally chosen because of their reputation for being good with children. They have been 90% good with DD BUT they did need to learn (a) DC are fragile, precious, not for playing with and (b) DC are higher up the household pecking order than them, even if smaller at present. I would advise not keeping the dog away from the baby ALL the time as this leads to jealousy and unhealthy intrigue, but having short (1 min, then 2 min, then 5 min etc) closely supervised periods together where the dog is allowed to sniff the baby to get used to him but told off calmly and firmly for any licking, bouncing, yapping etc. Try to make these times as relaxed as possible so the novelty of DC wear's off (easier said than done, I know, when you are worried for DS's welfare). Give the dog a small treat after each successful period of good behaviour around DC.

If after a few weeks there is no improvment at all and no signs the dog is able to change I would however advise that they keep him in a different room from you at all times on visits. The dog has to leave the usual rooms, NOT you and DC, or else the dog will again misunderstand the hierarchy (and think he's won).

My dogs are now 99% good with 14 mo old, totally tolerant of her climbing on them, tugging an ear etc. Once in month or so they get excited when the doorbell rings etc and in their excitement forget DD is there and jump/ran too boisterously. They are soon told.

The training should be focused mainly around rewarding the good and ignoring or diverting attention from the bad and should not be punishment based.

Unfortunately I think there's a snowball's chance in hell these owners will follow through with this - training isn't just a matter of having a trainer round, it has to be consistently applied. If the OP pays for and finds a trainer, I really doubt they will take ownership of the problem.

Grimma is right. Training only works if the dog gets the same treatment from everyone.

Sorry to hear that them visiting isn't an option.

But it sounds like one of those awful situations where unless you really really do stand up to them, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Just Say No.

Hard at first, but not a bad thing to practice. To be honest, if your PIL are already taking the line that they'll just ignore/manipulate/sulk if things aren't done their way, and you're planning to move near them and hopefully have GOOD grandparent relationship, then developing this new persona is a good idea all round.

The New Mew - The Mummy Tiger.

She's fair, she's just, she's welcoming... But when Mummy says NO and means it - no means no. No giving in. No discussion. 'I am not prepared for that to happen.'

Not a bad lesson for PIL to learn.

They need to do something about their poor dog, quite urgently, before he bites someone and the decision is taken out of their hands. Or worse still, before he injures their grandson and your family is damaged forever. Don't let that happen.

Bird Thank you for the advice but unfortunately there is no way in hell I would let him close enough to sniff. There was a period of time the morning after he met him where he was okay and sat fine on the couch unheld and happy and did have a sniff and didn't seem bothered but as soon as his owners came in his personality just switched. I find this is what always happens.

I will take the advice about what to look for in a trainer and find one, I will tell PIL's that I have found a trainer and if they then refuse I will tell them they must or we wont be visiting. I'm sure this will make them do it, I will also tell them that they must stick to the training and will tell them my worries.

Mummy Tiger goes RAWRRR! :o

Quick question - what do they do with the dog when they are on holiday? Or do they always take it with them or not ever go anywhere?

SIL would be looking after him. They don't go away often, they really couldn't as he just sits at the window constantly when they are not there and if he moves away gets manic as soon as he hears a car going by the house or anyone walking by because he thinks it's them.

If we were all to go out for a meal we can't really be out long as he just wont stand being completely alone for long.

And I mean manic. He basically tries to dig through the window...

My PIL take in rescue dogs and the one they have at the moment was rehomed with them because it couldn't be placed with children and they had none at the time.

He's a bit growly and snappy and you have to avoid his feet (horribly abused in the past) and no way will be be anywhere near DC1 when they are born.

My PIL's solution has been to buy a babygate which they've stuck heavy Perspex to so the dog can see out and see people but will be in the kitchen when the baby is there with the Perspex stopping little hands reaching through when they're older.

To be fair, the dog's not bitten anyone in the 7 years they've had him but none of us are prepared to risk it. Be strong and firm!

Talking to a trainer might help. Sometimes hearing it from another 'dog savvy' person brings it home just how bad things are, otherwise it's easy to blame others instead of yourself/the dog. I've been guilty of it myself, telling DH the dog only bites him because he doesn't handle him correctly, which to be fair is true, but really isn't the point, the dog should not be biting anyone and should follow commands first time for everyone.

My dad only trained his dog after I kicked off about it and he realised if I thought the dog had a problem, then the dog had a problem and maybe it wasn't my mum's fault as he had previously thought.

But yes, it won't work if they aren't willing to put in the work and it must be a continous effort. We often have to go back to basics with Devil Dog or he starts lapsing. At the moment going out to the loo looks like it might start being an issue again so I am focusing on training that throughout the day.

I think the idea of them hearing it from a trainer would be good. I think they might listen if a trainer tells them just how dangerous he is.

I know to them he will not appear dangerous because he's there loved pet but he's a biter and doesn't listen to anyone so maybe someone else will manage to make them realise it.

I hope your training works out with the Devil dog!

Does your SIL live with them or is she always there too when you visit - I was just wondering if whatever arrangement they use for holidays they could use when you visit, at least until the dog is adequately trained?

She lives with them so that couldn't work. :(

They really need a behaviour counsellor, preferably a member of the http://www.apbc.org.uk/ APBC their vet can refer them. As has been said though. They need to be committed to the process.

Personally I wouldn't have my baby anywhere near the dog, at least until I could see clear evidence it was being better managed. Even then it would need to be safely in another room. I've no problem at all with well behaved dogs around babies and children, we have one, but with an out if control dog the risks are too high.

I remember that thread too

APBC