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The doghouse

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Original poster

PIL's Dog grabbed the arm of newborn DS's snowsuit... Can he ever be trained?

50 replies

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 12:30

So, basically me and DP stay at his parents house once a week, mainly so it is easier for them to see DS as they stay a fair bit away and neither of us drive.

The first time we took DS up he was 2 weeks old, they have a 5? year old Cockapoo who I had already been very worried about as he is snappy and tried to bite me a few times when I was pg.

MIL had been taking DS's snowsuit off when the dog got free and ran up and grabbed the arm of the snowsuit, luckily his arms had just been taken out of it. I screamed at the dog and went a bit mad obviously.

So now he is constantly held back when we are there or we sit upstairs which kind of defeats the point of us being there.

He still constantly barks at DS and tries to get to him, I really don't know what to do as I don't want to stop PIL's seeing DS.

I suggested taking him to obedience classes the other day and was basically told that he will get used to DS and that's just his personality! I have never seen a dog like that with a baby and I am not willing to see if he gets used to him as I don't trust him.

Please help? Thanks.

OP posts:

mrsmilesaway · 09/11/2011 12:43

Not sure but bumping for you.

Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 12:46

Thank you. :)

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bumpybecky · 09/11/2011 12:57

I don't know whether obidence classes would work or not, but it doesn't sound as though your PIL are willing to even try :(

If PIL refuse to train the dog I know I wouldn't be taking a baby to visit. It's just not worth the risk.

I'm not an alarmist who thinks all dogs eat children (I've just started to foster a dog who has bitten a child, despite having 4 myself). I'm just very concerned at the attitude of PIL and the fact that the dog snapped at a newborn who cannot have been provoking the dog (very different to an older child poking and getting a nip IMHO).

What a :( situation to be in.

LoveInAColdClimate · 09/11/2011 13:03

No advice but I remember your thread when you were pregnant about your PILs and the dog and the crazed SIL who wanted to take your baby out for the day when he was a few days old, and wanted to offer sympathy. It sounds like the problem lies with their attitude... it really sounds as if they ought to be shutting the dog in another room when you are there with your DS and also retraining the dog, not saying there isn't a problem.

Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 13:27

Becky I really wouldn't know how to refuse taking him as I know I can sit in another room (which bugs the hell out of me), I think the problem is they don't believe the dog to be as aggressive as he really is. I don't think they fully understand the damage he is capable of causing. They do constantly hold him back but I don't want him in the same room as his barks and howling hurts my ears so I don't have a clue what it must be doing to DS's ears. :(

And I don't think he was actually trying to grab DS, I think he seen the mittens on the snowsuit and was trying to grab that, not understanding what a baby is or possibly that he is a doll, none the less it doesn't make it better in the slightest.

And I am extremely :( to be in this situation, I want to enjoy taking DS to see his GP's not dread it.

LoveInAColdClimate I keep having people telling me they remember that thread! Yes, I think the problem does lie with attitude towards the situation and it doesn't seem to get better.

I would rather he was kept in a different room but I couldn't ask for this in someone else's house and also they can't as he wrecks everything when he's in a room his self.

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bumpybecky · 09/11/2011 13:36

I remember the SIL thread too! I hadn't realised it was you. Congratulations on your baby :) (sorry, should have said that first time!)

Sorry to be a bit blunt, but I think you need to put your big girl pants on now and stand up for yourself and your ds. If you're not feeling brave can your DH speak to his parents?

If the dog is being aggressive he needs to be kept away from your baby, not by being held away but by being in a different room or in the garden. If he's going to destroy things then they either need to crate him, or take it in turns to sit with him. Or you stop going there and let them come to you (without the dog!).

Sounds to me like this dog really needs some training. Will PIL admit that he needs better manners at not snapping and also not wrecking things (even if they won't admit to the aggression)?

LordOfTheFlies · 09/11/2011 13:38

My PILs used to have a terrier (don't know what flavour) who used to attack my feet as I went upstairs and wouldn't let me walk past him in the hall without a fly little snap at me
He'd gone to the Rainbow Bridge by the time I had DCs but no way would I have let them been in the same room together!

Everyone seemed to think it was ok because he was fine with them.

Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 13:43

Haha Becky thank you. :) Everyone seems to remember that thread, oh how she would love the attention if she knew!

I know I need to put the big girl pants on. :( I do make comments about it and as I said even offered to take him to obedience classes. No joy, so now I have to step up the mark. If he is still the same the next time we take him it will be the last time I put up with it and DP will be speaking to them. They are really nice and I don't want to be harsh but I know this really cannot continue.

He has actually already been to obedience classes and actually passed this is why I don't think they will send him again!
The problem lies where he misbehaves and then is given positive re-inforcement. For instance, when we were last there I was sitting with DS and they had him held at the other side of the room and he started really barking and trying to get away to get to us and instead of being put out he was given treats to silence him! This is how it goes constantly.

As for the wrecking things it's bloody impossible to deal with. The other day he had something and MIL tried to take it from him, he bit her! She even had bite marks.

I am genuinely scared of him sometimes and I have never been scared of a dog.

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Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 13:46

LordOfTheFlies That seems to be the way it is with DP's family. Because he is generally okay with them I don't think they believe he would do any harm. I see this from the outside and I do think he would do serious harm.

Also interesting you use the rainbow bridge saying as DS's name is Norse. :o

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GrimmaTheNome · 09/11/2011 13:47

When DD was young and I had the NCT crowd round, I used to shut our dog away because he was noisy and nosy - not aggressive but even so, just not what you want around other people's babies. If he'd been a room-wrecker, well that would have been my problem to deal with - crate plus working on (presumably) separation anxiety.

Sounds like this dog needs training on more than one front, but that your PILs won't do it.

I wouldn't worry too much about the noise the dog makes, BTW - DD has lived her life with dog noise and it doesn't seemed to have done her any harm at all. If the dog is excluded (which seems like the only solution) he'll probably be even more vocal I'm afraid.

GrimmaTheNome · 09/11/2011 13:51

Because he is generally okay with them I don't think they believe he would do any harm.

The other day he had something and MIL tried to take it from him, he bit her! She even had bite marks.

Those two sentences say it all. Ask your MIL what would have happened if the dog had got hold of the suit with baby in it?

MotherPanda · 09/11/2011 13:51

My parents dog growled at the baby just the once, and ever since then whenever we go round my mum insists on the dog being out in the garden or in the kitchen.

It's not worth the risk, with a small baby - as she gets older, i'd like to try more introductions though, as I do believe dogs can be trained not to behave like this.

Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 13:52

Grimma I had no idea how the noise would affect him it just worried me as it was constant and painful to even adult ears and DS's arms were shooting out everytime he barked but I guess the noise wont harm him.

I wish I could get them to train the dog but even then I don't know that it would make a difference as we know the problem lies at home and I have been told the breed?

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Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 13:55

Grimma He just missed grabbing it with the baby in it and he wasn't even put out the room for that. I was mortified and got him upstairs as soon as I could.

It's not unusual for this dog to try and bite because something isn't done his way, I wish they could see that it's not normal behaviour.

MotherPanda Last week they tried to introduce them through a glass door in the living room, he just barked and barked and tried to get to him, then FIL made the comment that he thinks the dog thinks he's a doll, so I cannot understand why when this is what he believes he doesn't want to have him trained.

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bumpybecky · 09/11/2011 13:58

I think you need to find training classes for the PIL and well as the dog :(

It's a kind offer, but I don't see you taking the dog to classes will help anything if they're going to reward bad behaviour with treats

What does your Dh think about all of this? is he willing to talk to them?

I'd be tempted to give them an ultimatum. Either they deal with the dog's behaviour (training / crate / separate rooms) or you stop going there. But only if you're prepared to stop going, empty threats are no use at all

DooinMeCleanin · 09/11/2011 13:58

If PIL want to train him a good way to start would be to keep the dog on a lead when you or any other visitor are there and by their side. When he's sitting quietly drop a treat near him. He'll soon learn the best place in the house to be when there are guests is next to PIL's feet, quietly.

I wouldn't advise letting him off leash near the baby at all until the dog has been assessed by a APDT registered trainer. Although it sounds like PIL aren't likely to do this? In which case I'd just stop visiting.

Breed shouldn't be an issue. All dogs are trainable, poodles in particular are very intelligent dogs.

When the dog ran at DS was it over excited play or agression? I'd be very surprised if it was the latter and would be getting the dog straight to the vets to check for nuerological conditions.

Iggly · 09/11/2011 14:00

I remember your other thread! I really don't understand why you are still going? You sound like you're trying to rationalise it, that it was the mittens he was after, that you want to enjoy the visits.

However at the end of the day, this dog cannot be trusted around your child. You need to protect your child - how would you feel if the dog had bitten your baby? Yes, you could blame your MIL but you have the choice whether or not to take him there.

Really sorry to be harsh, but I don't think it's worth the risk.

Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 14:01

He is willing to talk to them but we wanted to see if they would start thinking sensibly about the matter with us keeping him at as safe a distance as possible. Sadly this doesn't seem to be the case and we are doubting what they will do. However SIL has been repeatedly saying she is going to get him fitted with a muzzle which I suppose is a step forward!

With giving them an ultimatum; I grew up with my Gran and she didn't get to see one of her GC because the Mother was poisonous but I seen the effect this had on her and I really didn't want to stop taking him. However I know that DS is the priority and if the situation continues to be the same I will have to stop taking him.

OP posts:

louby86 · 09/11/2011 14:03

I know it's not really the same but when my SIL bought her baby home from hospital she was told to give one of the babygros that had already been worn to the dog to get him used to the baby, not sure if you've got a spare one you could give them to see how he reacts? The PILs seem to be the problem here, and if it was me I'm sorry but I'd be telling them if they didn't go to classes or see a behaviourist then I wouldn't be visiting.

Congratulations on your baby, I remember your 'other' thread too

Iggly · 09/11/2011 14:06

By not taking him, you wouldn't be "poisonous" like your mum. Please don't see it that way.

Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 14:06

Dooin I think it was a mixture of both tbh, I think he thought he was a toy and went to go play tug of war basically (oh dear lord the thought of that is making me feel sick) He has in the past visit been kept on a leash which seemed to work better than holding him back but he still had his crazy moments.

Iggly I don't blame my MIL at all for this, I just didn't want it to have to come to me stopping bringing her GC to see her. And I have thought over and over how I would feel and it is bloody terrifying. I am just trying to come up with a solution which doesn't stop us taking him there.

And it's okay, I don't mind you being harsh. I probably do deserve it for not addressing this better, sooner.

OP posts:

Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 14:08

Louby He would quite literally rip it to shreds.

And thank you. :) Gawd, did everyone read that thread!?

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MotherPanda · 09/11/2011 14:10

oh dear, So introductions didn't go to well at all. My parents got a local 'dog whisperer' type to come over to try and sort out their dog (he was rehomed, but is a failed gun dog, so very jumpy and suspicious of men). Your PILs really need to do some training, or you don't go over any more.

Original poster

SchrodingersMew · 09/11/2011 14:12

I hadn't thought about a dog whisperer type however I was thinking more Dog Borstal!

I really need to convince them to train him...

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MumblingAndBloodyRagDoll · 09/11/2011 14:14

My PILS had a doberman...he was skittish when they got him and when he bit my DH while he held our new DD, they took him away. I think they rehomed him...there was no choice for them.

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