Reputable breeder of Chocolate Labradors?

[ajandjjmum]

Just wondering if anyone has bought from a breeder they would happily recommend.

Ideally we're looking for a 'working' rather than 'show' dog, although he would essentially be a family pet.

We're in the Midlands but would happily travel wherever necessary (in the UK!).

Thanks for any help.

Yes. I am absolutely more than happy to recommend the breeder I have bought from. I have been watching her lines develop for the past 5 or 6 years and thoroughly admire her commitment, outlook, methods and consistency.

I think it would be more appropriate to PM you her details though. PM me if you want more info.

Working labradors vary enormously.

They can come as highly strung as you can imagine, and a nightmare to have as a family pet to calm and biddable and very, very bright.

It all depends on what you ultimately want from the dog.

We found the breeder of our chocolate labrador puppy through the Labrador Club of Scotland - I assume that the English Labrador club would have a similar puppy coordinator.

We found a breeder with a bitch who was Kennel Club registered, as was the sire, and when we visited to see the puppies, we were able to see the mum and the bitch that they'd kept from her previous litter with the same sire, so we got a very good idea of the build that our dog would eventually have.

Our breeder had the hip and eye scores for both bitch and sire, and that is very important in labradors (forgive me if I am telling you stuff you already know). These scores rate the parents of the puppies for two problems that are known to occur in labradors - hip dysplasia, and an eye condition that I can't remember the name of. The theory is that if both parents have low scores for these hip and eye problems, then the likelihood is that the puppies will have a low chance of developing these problems in later life. I believe that some labs are also scored for knee problems too.

I have been told that chocolate labs are the nuttiest of the labradors, and that overbreeding of chocolate labs has exacerbated this, but if you go to a reputable breeder this should not be a problem.

Our chocolate lab is lovely - a bit dim, but very lovable and loving.

One important thing to remember - chocolate labs don't show the mud when they are filthy - until they rub up against your walls! That has happened to me on more than one occasion - you'd think I'd learn. But I'd rather have some mud to clean up than a house without Coco in it.

I'd add as well, if you're looking at working lines - make sure the breeder does work them.

A reputable breeder will either show or work labs, if they don't do either then there would be no need to breed them other than money and anyone doing it for that reason isn't going to be a reputable breeder.

Thanks Daisy - will pm you when I work out how!

We have been researching for a while, and found MN - together with other forums - very helpful.

Thanks SDT - happy to have all of these points reiterated, rather than miss any out. It seems that a key point is that the breeder makes you sign that the puppy would be returned to them if there is any problem in the future.

We were thinking a working dog as they are active and disciplined (if trained properly) and we also prefer the look of them.

I understood that the nuttiness was a bit of a myth - providing the breeding is reputable, it's down to the training. I do realise though that all puppies are nutty!!

Good point tabula.

I am spending far too much time scouring websites and kennels, but personal recommendation is always worth having.

Thank you for all of your input - exciting times - important we get it right.

The Breed Club would be a good place to start.

iirc you can go via the KC website and then somewhere in there there is a list of the breed clubs, it's been a couple of years since I did it, but I'm pretty sure the info is in there. Or I guess you could just google Labrador Breed Clubs

I'm pretty sure the Labrador Forum web site also has the list somewhere.

The secretary of your local club should have a list of litters that are due/planned. A good breeder should really have a waiting list so be prepared to ask your questions to the breeder even if there aren't any pups born (or created) yet.

My lab from show lines is very active when I want her to be . She is also well trained and obedient/biddable. On the Labrador Forum there are a few breeders who both show and work their labs, which I think is a good thing.

Good luck in your search

have pm'd you op

Sorry can't advise on breeders as we bought out lab from the private ads in the paper (I know on hindsight not wise) but we did see both parents as they were working/family pets. The couple selling the pups were also able to show us the parents' hip and eye scores and there were field trial champions on both sides.

However, he is completely nuts and extremely highly strung and very much a work in progress with training (he is 2 now). He is REALLY hard work (but wouldn't change him for the world). However, there are 2 chocolate labs which live beside us and they are totally chilled out, couch potatoes. My lab is black so not sure where the saying about chocolates being mad come from or else perhaps we just picked the manic one in the litter.

Hips and eyes already mentioned but I would be looking for an Elbow score too, nothing above 1/1 and ideally at least one of the parents should be tested PRA Clear. All the best!

Just realised I responded to mycatsaysach's PM thinking you were Daisy - apologies for confusion!!

I can absolutely understand why you want a working 'type' of dog I strongly advise you to look for a working/show bred mix or at least not a working dog with a whole line of FTCH/FTW (field trial champion/field trial winner) in its pedigree.

Purebred field trial dogs are hard, hard work. And I certainly wouldn't recommend one for a family pet, even one which might be worked. If there's a type of lab that's nutty and difficult to control, it's a purely trialling bred one. They're incredibly fast, bright and very, very challenging. I love them - we have 2 pure triallers - but they weren't the first labs we trained.

And for what it's worth there are some absolutely beautiful mid size show bred chocolates I know who work really well, are bright as buttons and I'd take any time over some purebred working dogs.

With all tests, make sure you actually see the certificates and that it's for the right dogs - and ideally that you get copies of them when you take the puppy away.

The eye condition all labradors should be tested for is GPRA - it is a genetic problem and the test for it is annual. Any certificate you see should be dated within the last 12 months or so. Walk away if it's not. Accept no excuses - it's now worth the potential trouble - and indicates lack of care from the breeder.

There are another 2 or 3 tests which good breeders carry out too.

I wouldn't accept a pup if either parent had an elbow score of more than 0/0 either and the combined hip score must be less than the breed average of about 16. Hip scores are sometimes given as a score for the left and right hip - say 3/6 - giving a combined score of 9 which is good. A score of say 25/30 would give a combined score of 55 which is poor.

And it's obvious and I'm sure you know already - but it's the parents which must be tested and scored, not the puppies!

A good breeder will give you a well prepared puppy pack and feeding guidelines and usually a small supply of the food the pup has been weaned on. They will also put endorsements on the pedigree aimed at preventing you breeding from your dog until you have had the relevant health tests done.

I'll PM details of a couple of good chocolate breeders in a second or two.

oh ok - it still made sense though

Excellent advice already given, it would also be worth posting over on the Labrador forum, lots of excellent breeder on there :)

www.wylanbriar.com/
Would not look anywhere else. I have a puppy from their stud dog as the kennel did not plan any litters around the time we wanted to. Di Stevens is a moderator on labrador forums and is super super breeder and trainer.

If my post gets deleted, just pm me.

Also, I agree with daisy regarding show lines. Honestly, you do NOT want to have someone who is bred for proper work and now is forced into the family setting - an absolute timebomb and is unfair on the family as well as on the dog.

It is much better to choose your breeder carefully who breeds good allrounders who are happy to lounge around as well as be taken on long walkies... there are plenty of good breeders around. My choc is from show lines but the ones that have been worked also.

daisy - our lab has a whole host of FTC and FTW - and he's marvellous. Very biddable and intelligent, very attached to us - never, ever, wanders, full of life on walks but happy to flop on the sofa. Unspuprisingly he is MAD about retrieving - if you present a dog biscuit in one hand and a ball/stick/dummy in the other he is not remotely interested in the biscuit - he just implores you (with his big brown eyes) to throw the toy for him. However - all his working stock is on the dog's side - mum was a pet - and her side a mixed bag. Do you think this is why he's not highy strung and nutty?

Thanks Bemybebe - Di Stevens has been really good and put me in touch with a couple of people, as she has no litters available for the next few months.

Really interesting what you and Daisy say about not having a pure working dog.

All much more complicated than I thought!

Once more I'm copy and pasting the below from another thread as its basically all the information you should be looking at even if it is bloody long All credit for the post below goes to an amazing dog owner/lover/rescuer.

Perhaps I might be able to help with some pointers in what to look for in a reputable rescue and in a reputable breeder, and what to avoid.

Rescue's pretty easy. You should only deal with one which will:

1. Homecheck you. This is for your benefit as much as the dog or pup's. We don't want you to end up bringing your dog back because he isn't suited to your home and lifestyle or having to explain to your children that Rover got run over because he got through the gap in your fence.
2. Assess every dog thoroughly.
3. Neuter or spay before rehoming or, if the dog is too young, ensure that you are under contract to organise it ASAP and which will check up to ensure that you have done so.
4. Microchip, vaccinate, vet check, worm and flea treat every dog.
5. Insist upon meeting all the members of the household and satisfying themselves that all adults are up for owning a dog.
6. Meets any other dog owned by the potential adopter.
7. Ensures that you sign a contract which states that the dog will be returned to rescue if ever you can't keep him, no matter how many years in the future that might be.

Expect rescue to meet you more than once, to grill you and to take seriously any questions or concerns and to guarantee you support for the whole of your dog's life.

A good breeder? They're hard to find.

Seek one who:

1. Is a member of a recognised, reputable breed club.
2. Only breeds one type of dog.
3. Never advertises in the free ads, epupz, Gumtree, Preloved, shop windows, local press etc but instead who has a list of potential owners and a reserve list before mating.
4. Offers lifetime support.
5. Will take the dog back at any time in his life if you can't keep him. I get requests from far too many vets asking me to find rescue for dogs who the owner can neither keep nor find rescue for themselves and who have therefore taken the dog in to be put to sleep (PTS). Imagine how many die because the vets don't call on people like me, sadly I can tell you for a fact that far too many vets will PTS such a dog.
6. Has chosen a stud dog for his suitability wrt health, size, temperament, proven background and proven health checks regardless of cost or distance and not just a local dog (always view those who boast that they bred with a local dog with great suspicion).
7. Who has carried out all necessary health checks on both parents and has the original paperwork to prove it.
8. Who will question you to within an inch of your life on your family, home, knowledge of the breed, will want to know about you insuring the dog, will want to discuss and insist on you neutering the dog, will want to meet you, DH and the DC and who will be able to answer all your questions and talk genetics until you nod off in boredom. If they don't have the answers, if they don't know about the genetics of good breeding, then they don't care and you could well be buying a vet bill on legs which they won't give a stuff about once they've cashed your cheque.
9. Will never breed a bitch who is under 2, who is over 5 at most or breed a bitch within 12 months of having a previous litter.

Ask the breeder:

1. If they show or work their dogs - if not, why not.
2. To see all paperwork as originals and take a look carefully, refer to breed rescue or breed club for assurances on the pedigree. If in doubt, take paperwork or copies, walk away and say you'll think it over and get advice from a reputable breed club secretariate/coordinator first.
3. If they intend to keep a pup - if not why not.
4. Why they bred their bitch. A reputable breeder will breed rarely, maybe only once every 3, 4 or 5 years, to improve breed lines and generally to keep a dog to show.
5. If they breed any other breeds or any other of the breed they are selling (see above) and if so how many adult dogs and pups they have.
6. If they are registered, licensed breeders (see below).
7. If all their pups and dogs are KC reg/accredited. This is not necessarily the sign of a reputable breeder - 90% of puppy farmed dogs are KC reg, but it gives some assurances. A non KC reg dog is definitely unlikely to have had all the necessary health checks/have parents and grandparents who have.
8. If a breeder has no pups available they should be able to refer you to checkable members of a recognised breed club who have or might have. The good ones know each other, they talk (though they may not always get on!!!). Does your chosen breeder know any others? What are their names, where are they? ASK! A good breeder will be able to tell you of others, word gets around, good and bad, in these circles as it does in rescue. Take a pen and notepad and have ready a list of questions and note the breeder's replies to questions such as these. If in doubt/you mishear, don't be afraid to ask them to repeat that or to spell a name or address. A good breeder will be comforted to hear it.

Check them out:

1. A breeder must be licensed with the local council if they or someone in their family, even if at a different address breed from more than 4 bitches. They must also comply with various laws regarding the age of bitches before they have their first litter, the gap between litters - illegal to breed a bitch within 12 months of the last litter, for example - and be inspected by the council. The council will have records on this available, some have lists of licensed breeders on their websites, some will know of dodgy ones, always call them to see what you can find out, even if the breeder is not registered.
2. Have a word with their local independent rescues - they may know of the breeder and be able to give you a heads up.
3. Can you see the mum? Is this the last pup? If so, be wary, it's common nowdays for puppy farmers to use family homes as fronts for their businesses in return for money and having no siblings to your pup available may indicate this, although of course it is perfectly possible for such a "fake breeder's home" to have the whole litter and mum there.
4. If you'd like me to do a search on the breeder and ask in confidence around my friends and acquaintances in rescue and animal welfare who, like me, go around identifying and reporting puppy farmers and illegal breeders, please pm me in confidence the breeders name, phone numbers and email address.
5. Ask who their vet is and call the vet before making any promises or parting with any money. Vets have a code of confidentiality they must follow but will at least be able to tell you if the breeder is not one of their clients. Get a sympathetic, savvy one and they may be willing to tell you more. If they do,, just please don't drop them in it by making it public, cos they really shouldn't! wink
6. Ask national and local breed clubs and breed rescues if they know anything of the breeder.

NEVER:

1. Pay any money up front before seeing the pups in the breeders home and doing those checks or deal with any breeder which asks you to or offers you the chance to pay a deposit before meeting you. After all, would you leave your child with a childminder before you interviewed them in their home? Of course not, because you care about the welfare of that young life and want to know who you are entrusting it to.
2. Feel pushed into making a decision/paying up - the breeder should have more homes waiting than pups and not appear anxious to get rid or to take your cash.
3. Feel anything less than being under scrutiny by them... again, they should ask you loads of questions because they care.
4. Take that the dog is in a family home at face value. As I said, puppy farmers are smart these days, many will present a very acceptable image.
5. Pay less than the going rate - ask yourself why these pups are cheaper than those being sold via breed clubs/breed club recommendation. Contact the breed club and ask what you SHOULD expect to pay or contact some of the breeders on their lists and ask them.

If in doubt, walk out. Equally, if in doubt, please feel free to pm me the details - I have contacts who know of many dodgy breeders and good ones too and who may be able to advise. For some it's their lifes work, one in particular is in her 80s and what she doesn't know about dodgy breeders or those who carry out the wicked trade ain't worth knowing!

And after all that, may I say this.

I don't like giving the advice I have just given on breeders. Not just because it comes as no pleasure to face the fact that there are far more bad ones out there than good and that puppy farming and backyard breeding* is still as rife as ever it was but because I would far rather you rescued. I spend much of my life finding rescue places for dogs who would otherwise die for want of homes owing to the overpopulation caused by bad breeders and far too much of my life too breaking my heart knowing that each year for thousands and thousands of unwanted healthy dogs the only way out of the pound or vets is in a black bin liner.

But if you are insistant on buying a pup I would rather you did so from a reputable breeder, giving you the best chance of buying a healthy, sound companion for life therefore helping to prevent sales from backyard breeders and puppy farmers and so helping to prevent yet more dogs dying unnecessarily or ending up unwanted and unloved except by those of us in rescue.

A good rescue, like the type described above, will be your friends for life as much as a dog or pup from one.... and yes, you can find puppies in rescue, I can help with that if you'd like me to. And yes, many will rehome to those with children too, especially the smaller independent ones who are less likely to have blanket policies.

Can I add too that although Labs are generally nice dogs there is no such thing as a "good breed with kids" - the exception being perhaps the Staffordshire Bull Terrier which is the only breed which the Kennel Club state is a recommended family dog. I would argue with even that - there are good and bad dogs in every breed. You wouldn't want to have my Labrador with your DC, he's not fond of them, only likes our own, but you'd find my younger German Shepherd an absolute joy and love him to pieces because he loves everyone.

My advice? Go to a reputable rescue, put yourself in their hands, tell them all about you, your lifestyle, your home, your children and let them do what they are expert at... matching the right dog to you, not the breed. This poster is the woman who went in search of a small collie cross girl of about 4 to 6 years old, having lost her similar little companion to cancer and who couldn't find one who was suitable but instead did find the right dog... a bloody great 9 year old, male, long haired white German Shepherd Dog, my introduction to the breed as an owner and the very best dog in the world any woman, any mother, any family could have asked for. Shane passed away 5 years ago, I have 3 dogs now and I love them to pieces, I've fostered several since too... but none of them will ever, nor will any future dog, be quite as perfect as the dog I wasn't looking for and who I would never have considered owning until I met him and realised what we could offer each other.

This is the thread I've copied and posted from theres a lot of good advice there.

Bemy you and I are recommending the same wonderful lady . Your dog and one of mine must be related

hatwoman it's all in the breeding! Whoever bred your dog and sold it as a family pet has obviously planned what they were making. The blend of trialling and pet/show labs often makes for a brilliant and beautiful labrador.

Labs should be biddable, friendly, bold and confident, bright as buttons, masses of fun and really responsive and those who are bred entirely for trials are all of those things but are a bit/lot more wired.

It's a really good and thought provoking thread QueenofJacks.

daisy we have Deed as a father