Novice dog buyer in need of advice

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Hello, on Sunday morning we are viewing a litter of Labrador puppies with a view to buying. They will be 7 weeks old when we view.

I have never bought/had a dog before but voluntary redundancy and pleading from children and husband means I now have the time to devote to this.

Talking to friends they have told me to do the following at the viewing. 1. Make sure we see the parents, especially the mother, and see how she behaves and interacts with the pups. 2. Ask for certification from KC, and for hips and eyes (problem with this is I really don't know what to look for they seem to have scores but what score should I be looking for?). 3. Check that there is no evidence that this is a puppy farm, but what exactly does that look like? 4. Choose a male as they are easier around children (ours are 10 and 5). Is there anything else I should be doing/asking?

We have been quoted £450 for the puppy, this looks to be the going rate (I'm in the SE), am I right in thinking this?

Sorry nearly there just two more questions...

1. Three friends say get a cage for puppy as makes them feel secure and easier for owner. One friend and the breeder tell me not to. Advice please.

1. Have been told by various people that pups can leave mother at 7,8 and 9 weeks. Which is right.

Thanks in advance.

Great thread here on questions to ask a breeder before first contact.
It's a great forum as well if you are going to get a Lab, lots of great advice on there.

Just a few things from your OP to add.

£450 is too cheap. When I was looking for my pup the average amount was between £600-£700, going up to £1000, this was two years ago (and I'm up North). Price does NOT give you an all clear for a good breeder though. The breeder charging £1000 had not elbow scored his bitch . You really have to ask all those questions from the thread I have linked to and then go and look, and ask some more. Prepare to be grilled yourself. A good breeder will ask you lots and lots of questions to make sure you are a suitable owner for their puppies.

I have a lab bitch and she is great with children. imo sex doesn't make a dog (or bitch ) good or bad with children. Nature (dog's inherited temperament) and nurture (how you socialise your puppy with children) are what is important.

We got our pup at 8 weeks. There is always a bit of a debate about which is best: Socialising time frame vs more time for learning dog manners from litter mates and Mum. I read up on all the pros and cons and was happy with 8 weeks.

Well firstly puppies should absolutely not leave their mother before 8 weeks. That is the absolute earliest.

And you MUST see both parents. No exceptions. Never heard the advice about choosing a male before. Dogs are individuals.

May I ask why you're buying from a litter and not going to a rescue? Just curious.

And are you aware that ALL puppies have massive personality defects (it's called being a puppy!) and are unpredictable, massively time-consuming, they WILL bite your ankles and chew things they shouldn't! Just saying because this is often why people don't want a rescue dog, yet they've all been properly assessed and if you get an older dog are past the puppy phase.

we have a choc lab who's 8

we bought form a local breeder and paid £500 and took him home at 8 weeks
didn't see dad as he was a stud dog but saw a photo
i wasn't too sure first visit so i talked myself out of getting him but when i went back fr second visit he was much more lively - was v sleepy first time
i would say get as much info as you can but ultimately go with your gut feeling
def yes to the cage we had a old pen type thing for the hall and we couldn't have managed without it for the first year or so
also def do training classes and lots of socialisation when you first get pup

take loads of pics as they grow sooo fast good luck

oh yes check hip scores etc and i wouldn't have bought a pup that wasn't kc registered

Oh and I would want to be signing an agreement with the breeder that if at any point in your pup's/dog's life you were unable to keep it, then you would return it to the breeder.

Will try to find a link to what hip/elbow/eye scores you would want.

Here is the thread on health scores.

Hth

And Here is the thread that explains Optigen testing and GPRA.

You should always see the mother but not necessarily the father. This is a common misunderstanding in my (lengthy) experience. Far better that they have chosen the right male with the right health testing, even if he lives on the other side of the country (or indeed, the world) than used their own dog just because he's there and so they won't have to pay a stud fee. In fact, I would be worried if I did see the father, unless the breeder had a very good explanation as to why they used their own dog. Most people who use their own dog are back yard breeders and will take other short cuts too.

The average hip score for Labs is between 10 and 14, depending what kind of average it is. www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Breed_Specific_Statistics.pdf
Above should be the link to the BVA list of averages for all breeds - basically, 0 is perfect, 106 is as bad as you can get, and something round about 20 or less is fine for everyday life. I would be looking for scores under 10 for both parents., and elbows scores of 0 or at most 1 for one elbow (elbow scoring goes from 0 to 3). As mentioned above, you also want parents DNA tested for prcd (the modern term for GPRA!) and with recent BVA eye tests, and possibly also DNA tested for other inherited diseases such as labrador myopathy. I wouldn't touch one without hip, elbow and eye testing myself; the other inherited diseases are much rarer and so testing perhaps not quite as mandatory.
I don't think dogs are necessarily better with children than bitches. Depends a bit whether working or show lines - I know some very hard work Lab males from show lines. Bitches are a bit smaller.
If you look at the pedigree, you should see either show champions or field trial champions on it, depending whether show or working lines. And the same affix should appear several times on the pedigree, showing that breeding has been taking place in the same pair of hands for some generations - names such as "Labradorville Rascal, Labradorville Superhero, Labradorville Grenade", etc - in this example. Labradorville is the affix, which is a name that can only be used by one breeder. Names without affixes generally suggest breeding programmes without care, although the opposite is not necessarily true.
Lastly and most importantly, if they don't ask you as many questions as you ask them, and if they don't make you sign a contract agreeing to return the puppy to them if ever you can't keep it, at any point in the future, run away!
Good luck.

Thank you all for advice and links. That's my evening sorted out. Need to think about bitch/dog question. I understand that labs will overeat, and that neutering a dog (which we would do) makes them more slothful. So bitch may be better from that perspective.

Re rescue dog, was told they are for more experienced dog owners, as may have had a difficult past, but can see invalidity of this argument. There is also an expectation from the children that they want a puppy (of course they do!) and now I am at home full- time am happy to devote my time to this for them.

I am sure I will be back in next few weeks with many daft questions. Wouldn't let family know this but asthmatic brother meant no pets for me as a child, so I'm getting quite excited at finally getting one. Thanks again.

I second to looking at labrador forums - it is an absolutely treasure cave of good advice. Diana's posts are fantastic and she is a very well-known breeder and gun-dog trainer.

Yourfired the advice here is sound for a puppy from a breeder and if that is the way you want to go then I would follow it however I would also wait for Valhalla/ DBF to advise on rescue as she is the expert.
Don't discount a rescue any reputable rescue will match the right dog to your family and as having not had a dog before you may be better with a more mature settled animal as a first especially with children.

Look at also...

You will be wanting to neuter a dog or a bitch, and either will tend to have a slower metabolism after neutering. This does not mean they inevitably put weight on, just that you need to feed them less than you did before so that their weight remains constant. As long as they don't become obese, neutered dogs or bitches do not become slothful - you have only to look at agility dogs, very many of which are rescues and most of which are neutered, to see this. With almost any Lab, neutered or otherwise, you will need to be careful about weight gain - most of them are very greedy and will eat massive amounts if not rationed!

yy my boy lab is v v bouncy still and quite skinny

another thing i remember from when we first got him - whatever the pup cost i am sure we spent almost double that by paying for equipment,neutering,vets bills and insurance,puppy food etc.so be prepared.

Yes, rescue dogs have had a difficult past but 99% of the time that's because of the personality defects of their human owners, NOT them. And rescues do have puppies!

Although worth considering that the puppy phase (physically i mean, it will act like a puppy fir longer!) doesn't last long. Do your kids want the dog it will become?

There are some lovely lab dogs on Many Tears manytearsrescue.webs.com/dogslookingforhomes.htm and they are there because owners circumstances changed i.e. moving to houses where Landlords won't accept dogs. And any dog under 2/3 is a puppy, but getting one slightly older means you don't have to do that awful puppy stage.

Btw, got my dog from Many Tears. I'm not an experienced owner, and the dog had no problems and is an absolute delight :) She just desperately needed a home as her last owners could no longer keep her. Getting a dog from a rescue means you KNOW exactly what you are getting as all dogs are assessed by staff. You can't know that if you get a very young pup.

And a dog can only be 'slothful' if you don't ensure it gets the right amount of exercise.

Now thinking about rescue dogs. I really liked the candid approach of the many tears website. They come across as just concerned with getting it right for everyone. Lots to think about.

Brilliant!

Rescue dogs are my favourite breed! You'll never have a more loyal or loving friend.

I found them brilliant. From their website I really really like the look of Think and Hoover who are in the lab category, and a couple of others which I can't see atm as the site won't load for me. I went for an older crossbreed dog who didn't need too much training as a first dog. I'm fairly certain that when she settles in completely then we will get another.

Why is it that you have chosen a lab? Is it because of their reputation of being good with children etc? I only ask because my BIL and sister have a lab and when they got her as a pup they lived next door to me and kids so the dog had a lot of contact with my 9 yo kids who were very loving with her. She doesn't really like kids though and is a very timid dog by nature. I've read a lot on here that it more the actual dog, be it a cross breed etc., than the actual breed.

Good luck with the search and with whatever dog you get. I've found they really do make a home.

Whether you have decided to buy a puppy or get a rescue dog, either way the place you get it from should be saying that they will [even better, must] take the dog back at any time if you can't keep it anymore. This seems like a good way of weeding out many dodgy places.

Rescue dogs have not necessarily had a difficult past, it may just be that their people fell suddenly on hard times like redundancy or ill health. And you can get puppies through rescue as well, if that's the way you want to go.

Mowgli is the other lab I was thinking.

If I were in the SE though, I would go for Ruby & Millie with the swagger

Yes lab chosen because of good family dog reputation. Spoke to many dog owners and it came down to either a lab or springer spaniel as the two breeds that would fit into our family.

And yes to crate training! I don't think anyone else has answered this point. There is loads on the net about how to do it successfully.

Another vote for Many Tears - we got our lab x pup from them three weeks ago, and he's just right for us (two young children).

Have to say, with young kids its good to have a (known) not too bitey/chewy/mouthy young dog. Our neighbour's cocker, though gorgeous, was a nightmare with chewing/mouthing for the first few months. With our six month old, we have avoided most of that!

Yes to the crate, too. We use it at night, and as a refuge from kids/noise during the day if he wants it - and occasional short periods after walks, if we have to go out. He's not secure enough yet to be happy out of it if we're not around.