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It more of a AIBU but safer here, people breeding Staffies when so many need rehoming??

47 replies

Marne · 19/09/2011 20:09

A friend (not close friend) is looking for a male Staff to breed with her female. I feel Sad that people continue to breed staffies when so many get into the wron hands and most end up in re-homing centers. We bough our female Staffie 4 years ago from a breeder, she was one of 11 pups, at the time i had no idea of the situation with Staff's and how many where in re-homing centers, we bought her as a pet but considered breeding from her, when i looked into it i found out how these dogs often get into the wrong hands so we had her spayed.

AIBU in thinking this person/friend is mad to consider adding to the staffie population?

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higgle · 20/09/2011 20:32

I was surprised that a lot of the dogs on Epupz were Blue Staffies - not nearly so attractive as white or brindle ones, and always described as "rare"
I expect there will be a glut of these that no one wants soon :-(

Tchootnika · 20/09/2011 20:33

The friend on FB clearly wants to breed for the money

Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no, no! And no again.

Google 'SBT puppies' or anything similar. Show her the results. (Small time commercial breeders trying to offload Staff puppies to anyone who'll buy them for £20-£30...)
Direct her to Staffy Club Rescues on FB. She'll see that even blues are being abandoned now, cause they're no longer trendy and novel.

You've said that you made a mistake - but over breeding of Staffs wasn't nearly so well publicised 4 years ago. Now it is and no responsible owner who wanted a Staff (but wasn't bothered about pedigree) would buy one, they'd go to a rescue where you'd get a similarly bred dog, but providing a home for one that needs it rather than supporting this crappy 'industry'.

FGS, get her to see the error of her ways, or try and persuade her against this, even if it's just by showing her that if she wants to amke a quick buck, backyard Staff breeding ain't the way to do it.

Tchootnika · 20/09/2011 20:33

higgle - there already is. Sad

Marne · 20/09/2011 20:33

True higgle, i have seen a lot more of them about (not as rare as they were).

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Marne · 20/09/2011 20:35

Can anyone find a you-tube video that i can put up on my fb page explaining the sitution with staffies? i will go and have a look.

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Tchootnika · 20/09/2011 20:41

Marne, there was a Panorama about a year ago about abandoned dogs - and so really about abandoned SBTs, because that's what the majority of them were. It gave details of the numbers destroyed, interviewed breeders, showed the overwhelming numbers of them in rescue centres, etc.
Don't know if it's on Youtube, but worth a try?
Look at Staffy-Club Rescues FB pages as well. They make everything quite clear.

Marne · 20/09/2011 21:02

Finding it hard looking at the re-homing pages, i would love a friend for my girl, tapped my postcode in (thinking there wont be many dogs in my area) and there was loads, its a shame that most places wont rehome them with younger children.

Will go and look for fb pages and panorama.

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Vallhala · 20/09/2011 21:39

word the other reason why there are so many SBT in rescue is that because of the numpties who use/used them to look tough, many folk are of the opinion that the breed are dangerous and won't touch them. That and many folk think that all rescue dogs are without any history and don't realise that a good rescue ALWAYS assesses its dogs before rehoming, regardless of whether they come from a home with history behind them or a pound with no background info.

Look around here on MN, you'll see posters saying all those negative things about rescue and SBT in particular. The demographic of these forums is largely educated, probably largely middle class women so I'm always amazed, always saddened and frequently angry that this view should be so widely held.

And, of course, one educated, otherwise sensible person states it all as fact and as a result another 10 will automatically believe them.

Tchootnika · 20/09/2011 22:16

word (and Val) - SBTs are very high-energy dogs.
It's certainly true that some end up in rescue centres because they've failed to be the 'hard dog' that some twat wanted to parade around with.
But I think they're also victims of their reputation as 'nanny dogs'/ideal family dogs, both of which they can be, but not when they don't get enough exercise and attention.
I think lots of people got Staff puppies thinking that they'd end up with some dozy couch potato 'Saturday dog' who'd sit around all week not needing fun and exercise, then couldn't handle it when SBT reaches 1y.o. and bounces cheerfully off any surface available, needs to play, etc. - so silly owners decide they have a 'bad', 'unmanageable' dog.

The idea that most Staffs in rescue centres were at some time owned by a nutter who wanted to brutalize them isn't really helpful, firstly because it's not true, but also because it supports the idea that they're likely to be traumatised, problem dogs because of their bad experiences.

Many of them are in fact rejected family dogs - often still young and very energetic, but not traumatised, and capable still of being excellent family dogs.

Vallhala · 20/09/2011 22:56

Very much so, Tchootnika, I completely agree and have obviously worded my post wrongly.

What I see is a lot of SBT from pounds - but that's partially because I deal with a lot of pound dogs and partially because I work alongside a lot of lovely rescues which won't turn their backs on the poundies. I also see, as you say, a lot of SBT who have been surrendered when they become hard work, largely in their canine adolescence.

What I meant is that when they get into these rescues they are then overlooked and unwanted by potential rehomers because of that view that SBT are, according to the tabloids/what their friends say, "dangerous" or "unpredictable" dogs.

The dogs I deal with aren't ex-nutter owned, they are, as I said, either pound dogs or ex family dogs but the reputation they gained a few years ago as the hard man's dog, previously held by Rotts, Dobes, and, when I was a kid all those years back my own favourite breed, the GSD, still hovers over them and causes them to be unwanted.

LordOfTheFlies · 20/09/2011 23:28

Valhalla that video of the Irish Dog Pound.
About 3 min 40 sec into the video, the four wheelie-bins full of dog carcasses has to be one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever seen.

And I'm quite a hard hearted old bag IRL Sad

Vallhala · 21/09/2011 00:44

I'll tell you a secret now, LOTF. There's more than one of those videos, one's about 7 minutes long....

.... and I've never watched more than a couple of minutes of any of them.

I figure I don't need to. I used to get dogs out of Irish pounds and into UK rescue. Never been to Ireland in my life, did it all via a network of fellow rescuers/volunteers from here in the UK. I saved hundreds from certain death, those I could get released from the pound I found no kill rescue for, every one of them... but I also lost several, those which the pound managers refused to let out. Healthy young dogs who were largely just rejected by the pound manager as being "aggressive" because they growled in fear... and that was almost always the only reason, this I was told by the folk "on the shop floor", who were going into the pound and photographing the dogs ready to put their pictures up on appeals for the likes of me to save.

That pound killed scores of dogs. Many of those came from the neighbouring county, they "don't get paid to care for" those dogs, so they killed them, they didn't even advertise them for new homes, make it known that the dogs were there to those who had lost their dogs or allow rescue to offer those dogs a place of safety. Several of those dogs were puppies, many pedigree breeds, often no more than 8 or 12 weeks old.

I instigated and fought a long, hard campaign to get a pound of it's own in that neighbouring county, paid for BY the neighbouring county, so there would be no more killing of dogs just because the pound they were in didn't get paid to care for them. It took almost a year to get it, a year of fighting a pound and council which broke the law, killing dogs before their 5 days were up, which killed indiscriminatively, a pound which lied and covered up, which threatened us that if we exposed them there would be no more access to their pound, no more taking photos and doing as much of an assessment as was possible and therefore no more getting dogs out into rescue.

It made me very ill in the end - I was not long since recovring from cancer and in the end, that Christmas, I was wiped out by a flu like, stress related illness, not able to walk, stand or eat for 8 days, my dogs eating food direct from the big sack in the kitchen, drinking water from the bathroom poured as I struggled to go there to be ill (sorry, TMI!). On about the 3rd day I managed to get downstairs and leave the garden door open so they could go out to the loo... it was snowing outside, a rough northern winter, must have been freezing downstairs. That's all I can remember, I was pretty much drifting in and out of consciousness, thank god my then 8 and 10 yo DDs were down south with my parents for Xmas.

I started to recover on New Years Day... which was when I read that Meath Council had a pound of it's own. Not much, but it was a start. Their county's dogs would at least have a CHANCE of rescue, rehoming or being reunited with their families.

By then I'd made a lot of enemies... so now you know why I shrug off criticism on here for my strong views... perhaps you know too by now why I hold those views. I wasn't Irish, I was interfering, I should fuck off back to where I belonged. I was threatened with legal and "other" action for exposing the pound in Dundalk.

But I had done what I had set out to achieve, with the hard work of Dublin's AR supporter and rescuer Bernie Wright, to whom I will always owe more than I can ever repay. I was by then persona non grata with those who feared the pound and lacked the courage to speak out... and in part they were right, for the pound DID for a weel refuse the rescuers out there entry to photograph the dogs and a whole weeks intake, maybe 20, maybe 50 dogs were murdered. That haunts me, blood on MY hands, it fills my nightmares though in the long run I saved so many more by helping to get Meath pound built.

My nightmares are also haunted by the images in my mind of the dogs which the manager wouldn't release. The kennel mate of the scruffy mutt who now lives in the rescue I help out at, adopted by the DP of the owner... he was deemed to nervous to release, Bertie made it to rescue, leaving that friend behind in a black binliner. The 18 year old collie girl who the manager said was too old to be bothered about. The sister of another who went to the rescue I help at, too growly to be released. The dog which the owner had in his car when he arrived at the pound, laying beside his dead kennel mate - the owner had shot him. The 8 week old puppies who were hidden in the back of the pound, out of sight, then killed without anyone being allowed to help them because Dundalk pound "didn;'t get paid to care for Meath dogs".

So, as I said, I figure I don't need to watch those videos. I have them running through my mind already.

And is it much better in the UK? Do our pounds ALWAYS act according to law, do our pounds try to find homes/original owners/cooperate with rescue? No. I know of those who won't even TRY to find rescue or homes for GSDs, Rotts, Staffies and Bull crosses and the like, they kill them as soon as their 7 days are up without bothering because they deem these dogs too hard to home. For that read "it will cost us money to keep them, and we don't get paid to care for dogs after their 7 days are up".

Now, maybe, you know a bit more about pounds... and a bit more about why I'm the way I am, the way I speak as I do.... because I don't need to watch those videos.

2sons2cats2knackered · 21/09/2011 15:35

We're looking to adopt a rescue shelter dog and are both shocked at the number of staffys we've seen. Its enlightening to find out why this is and its positively something that I'll be showing my DH when he comes home tonight.

Marne · 21/09/2011 15:55

Do consider a Staffie 2sons, please dont walk past them (as many people do), because they love being near people the longer they are in Kennels the more depressed they become, my Staffie never leaves my side (unless she's following the dd's around the garden).

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Marne · 21/09/2011 16:02

And most are great with cats, i have just uploaded a pic on my proffile of my Staff asleep with the cat (they are best friends), the dog was scared of the cat when we first go it but they soon bonded.

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MollyTheMole · 21/09/2011 16:30

2Sons - get a Staffie, I love them as a breed and cant wait until the DCs are old enough for us to get another one.

Someone on here said the other day that they are lovely little piglets and I thought that was just the perfect way to describe them, snuffling, grunting gorgeous piggies Smile

Tchootnika · 21/09/2011 17:08

Val - thank you for reply, also for account of your experience with pounds.
(More people should know about this - obv.: I wish this thread could be put in AIBU for that purpose...)

Also meant to say, re. abandoned Staffs, I wonder if so many of them end up there because of their suitability as urban dogs (fine living in apartments, etc.) and history as working class dogs - meaning more (ex) Staff owners would have been hit by recession, had to move home etc. - a fate much less likely to befall dogs fashionable in wealthier groups (cockerpoodles or whatever...)

2Sons - please consider a Staffy (of course through a good rescue centre, etc.) They are the most wonderful, loving, joyous, cheerful, funny and silly rewarding dogs.
snuffling, grunting gorgeous piggies they so totally are Grin

MollyTheMole · 21/09/2011 17:21

Tchootnika - mine also actually 'hums' to herself. When she is snuffling about for truffles whatever she is looking for and she finds something I'll hear a little satisfied "hmm hmm hmmm". She does the same little noise when she worms her way up the bed aswell to rest her head on MY pillow Hmm

Tchootnika · 21/09/2011 18:28

Yep, mine too, Molly - but only in the evenings... She sits and mumbles, a different 'sentence' every evening (e.g. 'a-hu-hu-hu-hmmm'), but she repeats it over and over as she starts to snore. I think she's mulling over what sort of day she's had or something.
As our lovely vet says, 'They're a very chatty breed!' (and sooo funny, bless 'em)

The truffles thing... I really am looking into taking her to Italy and seeing if she can go truffle hunting with Italian dogs - she'd love it (and be quite good, I think). Actually, are there truffles in the UK, this could be the niche work Staffs need! Grin

Also, even more off topic here (might start another thread on this...), but...
Does anyone know anything about SBT-whippet connection?
Someone recently told me that every 7 or 8 generations, racing whippets are crossed with Staffs to bulk them up a bit. It just interests me, I'd love to know if it's true/more about it...

DizzyKipper · 21/09/2011 18:32

I don't think this just applies to staffies, I think far too many people of various breeds mindlessly decide to breed their dogs regardless of the over-population of dogs in rescue centres. But yes, I do agree with you. When me and OH got our little staff OH wanted to breed him, I've never wanted to breed dogs due to the rescue population size, but it took a lot of gentle persuasion until he could come to see and agree with my point of view.

MollyTheMole · 21/09/2011 19:28

Grin @ actual truffle hunting, I do reckon a staff would be perfect at it.

Ive heard something like that about whippet / sbt, think I read it somewhere online but cant place where. Will have a nosey tomorrow, have to go and sort the chimp DS out now

Marne · 22/09/2011 08:18

I'm working on dh to let me get a friend for our female, she loves company and gets upset when the cat goes out and leaves her alone. She woke me in the night, i can down to find her dragging her bed (which is a double duvet) across the room and into Dh's chair (trying to make a comfy place to sleep where she could smaell dh).

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