It more of a AIBU but safer here, people breeding Staffies when so many need rehoming??

[Marne]

A friend (not close friend) is looking for a male Staff to breed with her female. I feel that people continue to breed staffies when so many get into the wron hands and most end up in re-homing centers. We bough our female Staffie 4 years ago from a breeder, she was one of 11 pups, at the time i had no idea of the situation with Staff's and how many where in re-homing centers, we bought her as a pet but considered breeding from her, when i looked into it i found out how these dogs often get into the wrong hands so we had her spayed.

AIBU in thinking this person/friend is mad to consider adding to the staffie population?

Money, money, money!

as a fellow staffie owner i think YANBU.

i wouldn't buy a staffie puppy now - i would re-home instead. i don't think i could be persueded away from the breed though, as far as i am concerned staffies are the perfect dog! it makes me incredibly sad that so many staffies end up in rescue centres. they are a fabulous, but often misunderstood, breed.

YANBU at all, over-breeding is a big problem for this breed especially. Why does your friend want to breed her? Would you feel able to politely suggest to her that it might not be the most responsible thing to do?

YANBU. I'm one of the many but still too few souls who fight like buggery to find rescue places for pound and other unwanted dogs before they are killed. Staffies make up the largest part of our task, sadly. :(

I know one other thing - that person would quickly be educated by me and if that failed they'd quicker still become an ex friend.

Show them This was shot in Ireland but exactly the same thing happens here, the only difference is that here in England pound dogs are afforded 7 days, not 5, before they can be, and so often are, killed for want of rescue spaces and homes.

It's always difficult to get the message across to people we don't know particularly well but it is worth pointing out to her that the country is awash with Staffies already and many of them don't even have the luxury of ending up in a rescue. How would she feel if a dog that she had deliberately brought into the world ended up as a stray in a pound and after just 7 days of being overlooked was put to sleep?

Alternatively try the scare tactics and tell her that someone you know ended up with a dog having an emergency ceasarian on a bank holiday, all the puppies died and it cost her over £1500 in vets fees. Greedy people usually understand the language of money better than they understand how irresponsible they are being.

brambles think more like £2000k + for emcs & follow up care.

and staffy pups come free with a pound of tea here...

Just get them to look at any rescue website and see how many staffies there are on there. I was looking in the window of a new dog charity shop (not one selling the dogs btw, just raising money!) in our local town and all of the 20 dogs there were staffies or staffie cross, it is an absolute tragedy.

She's not really a good friend (just a friend on my FB friends list) so i don't really know her well enough to argue the case with her, i suspect she's doing it for the money (as your looking at £200 a pup, if the dogs have papers), i find it very that anyone would want to bring Staffie puppies into the world when there are so many that need re-homing. I agree that staff's are the best breed, i love my Staff to bits (even though she's slightly loopy), i bought her from a breeder (she was from the 3rd litter the bitch had) she was one of 11 and the owner sold them for £300 each, i was not really asked any questions by the breeder when i went to collect my pup and i had never had a Staffie before ( so no real expereance), i hate to think how many of the pups were just handed over to people who later abused or could no longer look after their dog's.

When our Staff is older we will consider re-homing another as they are lovely dogs and pefect for our family.

Even at £200 there isn't much money to be made, as I suspect she'll find out. Food, warmth, veterinary care, stud fee will all eat into that, and if there's anything wrong which requires serious vet fees then there will be nothing left at all. With such a surplus of staffies I'm not sure she'd get that much for them anyway. Can you not frighten her by talking of possible huge vet bills...?

Our lab had 7 puppies (I had 5 deposits taken before they were conceived), and all found homes with friends. The final one took a while to go, but we had decided to keep him if after 12 weeks he was still with us, but he went at 11 - I was devastated! We have annual puppy reunions! I sold them for a £200 as a vague attempt to cover costs, but even with no special vet bills I certainly didn't make money, in fact I'm pretty sure I "lost" financially but that wasn't the reason for having them. The daughter that we kept is of breeding age, but as I don't know anyone who wants one she is being spayed. I'd love to have a puppy from her, but the risk of having loads and no homes is too great.

Can I just ask a possibly daft question? Why do so many Staffies end up in rescue?

They end up in rescue because they became popular with a certain type of person and the sort of people breeding them are in the main extremely irresponsible. They are the only breed the Kennel Club have ever asked people to stop breeding AFAIK.

For similar reasons, everyone with a keen interest in any dog breed hates the idea of that breed appearing in a film or winning Crufts, as it usually means lots of people suddenyl want one, and they want one now. They don't want to go on the waiting list the responsible breeders will have and wait until that breeder is ready to breed their bitch. So lots of pet owners who think they can make a bit of money and puppy farmers 'cash in' on the latest fad. Only, these people only wanted the latest fad, they didn't really want a dog and the breeders couldn't care less about the puppy once the cash has been handed over and so loads of dogs (usually under a year old) end up in rescue.

OP if you want to deter the 'friend' you could let them know that Staffies are prone to some especially nasty genetic conditions and if they don't health test they risk producing unhealthy pups and owners have succesfully sued breeders of puppies that became ill because health testing was available but not done.

I've just looked on Epupz - 17 pages of staffies, 10 entries a page, with some litters of 10. Prices are up to £850 for a lovely cuddly puppy, sadly these ads are interspaced with lots of adult dogs free to "good homes" . I only looked on the site to research a reply, it makes me feel frustrated and sad. Lots of the puppies are from Carmathenshire - i.e. puppy farms.

These poor dogs are being bred faster than the existing ones that have bcome unwanted can be rehomed. It is purely for money - some breeders seem to expect £8500 for a litter!

Thank you for that explanation. I know absolutely nothing about staffies and thought maybe they were more boisterous or needed more exercise or somehting specificallly about that dog's breed that made them hard to care for.

They can be a bit bouncy, but are lovely dogs. It's purely down to irresponsible over breeding. Responsible breeders will always take back any puppy they've bred at any time in the dogs life, so it's not impossible, but well bred puppies are much less likely to end up in rescue/being informally rehomed.

the 'responsible' people i know with staffies have lovely well trained dogs whop are a wonderful addition to the family.

the numpties with staffies dont.

i know more well trained ones fortunatly round here, and most of the dogs at the school gates are well behaved staffies.

midori the breeder who we bought our pup from made us sign somehting to say that if we couldn't keep her for whatever reason we had to return her to the breeder.

Now I don't know if that would be legally binding, but it was very responsible of the breeder I thought.

It probably wouldn't be legally binding, because it would infringe on laws which proect people and their property, (eg, you now own the pup) but most good breeders have a similar contract and should do, At worst, it means that the buyer is aware they can return the puppy to you if they can't keep it.

I always try my best to maintain a good relationship with my puppy owners so that they will be inclined to return a dog/puppy to me if they can't keep it, but there are no guarantees of course and although I know where all my 'puppies' are, some people like to stay in touch more than others.

midori our breeder was keen for us to stay in touch.
She emailed in the early days asking for news, which I sent.

Unfortunately, due to a freak accident our pup now has a a broken foot and I daren't tell the breeder. I know it's probably daft but I don't want her to think we're not doing a good job

HereIgo tbf before MN I had no idea that there were so many staffies in need of homes. Ive had my girl for 5 years now and even if I could turn back time and not have got her from a breeder friend (for free I might add as they couldnt find a home for her so we offered to take her) I wouldnt as she means so much to us.

Ive been educated on here and I know the next dog we get will be a rescue staff.

Tell her, I'm sure she'll understand, accidents happen.

the friend doesnt breed anymore btw because he didnt want to be part of the problem anymore

Surely the fact that you've made a mistake in the past, doesn't mean you can't ever point out to someone that they might be about to make a similar mistake. It may mean you can't be too self-righteous and judgmental in the way you go about it, but that probably wouldn't be a very helpful approach anyway!

Marne - point out to your friend that the Mayhew Centre is now offering free neutering for bullbreeds - because there are so many of them. Tell her also that about 3,000 healthy Staffies/Staff crosses are killed every year because they can't be homed, show her some of those horrendous internet ads for Staff puppies.

It's so, so sad that these gorgeous dogs have been bred in such huge numbers; it would be wonderful if it was 'easy' to (responsibly) breed some litters - but at the moment (sadly) you're absolutely right, your friend shouldn't be doing this.

Just show her some evidence for why it's such a bad idea at the moment.

HereIGo- yes i guess i am just as bad as her but at the time i did not realise how many staffies were in re-homing centers, i had always wanted a White English bull but at the time i could not find one (i should have waited), i rushed into buying my bitch, she is a pure white Staff (or was ment to be) so not your average Staff, i saw her with her mother and some of her brothers and sisters, thought the people/breeder was genuine (she had sold several litters before), i did not see the dad, i payed £300 which was a lot of money for a staff (due to the fact she was pure white). Now she's older its clear that she was badly bread and she might not even be a pure Staff (even though i have her papers), i still love her to bits but i do regret buying her and not re-homing a dog.

The friend on FB clearly wants to breed for the money, i'm not even sure if her bitch has papers (i very much doubt it) and she's asking people on FB if they have a male Staff to breed with. I wouldn't mind people breeding as long as they go to good expereanced homes, sadly they often end up in the wrong hands . I know several breeders of Blue Staffies (very expensive dogs) but the breed dogs to be shown and they go to very expereanced owners.