why is docking done?

[misdee]

have been following the stolen puppies on facebook, and noticed that the pups are all docked.

why is that?

i thought it was outdated? but am no expert. i think i thoight that as my friend has two dogs, older one is docked, younger one isnt.

"nobody seems to care much about the docking of lambs' tails"

Hang on, they aren't meant to have short stumpy tails?! I'm learning a lot from this thread :(

Our springer is a third docked , he was bought by dp before we were together . We have rowed about it in the past. I do not think do is cruel, infect he adores all our animals. He may however have been misguided. He does say as a poster did above that the purpose of the docking is to prevent pain rather than for show . Our dog is beautiful, an excellent pedigree and often gets commented on, however he is not a fashion accessory. He is not a working dog although he is from working stock. They were all docked and ours was the only one who did not go to a working home from the litter.

I do not like docking and I am glad it is illegal, however as ours spends his life in dense underwood with his 2/3 tail wagging through branches and plants I can see why people may have thought it was necessary. As I said though I am glad that our future spaniels will not be docked.

no, docked because will get poo on them/flystrike I suppose

Lambs are often docked using a rubber band, Empusa.

Painful and barbaric.

:( I never knew, just assumed that's how their tail were!

My one year old working cocker has a full tail (its beautiful) but recently he has injured it when out on walks and then comes home and whips blood along the walls and kitchen cupboards. This happens about once a week on average. I have no plans to have him docked but if this continues and the vet advises it then we might have to . He seems prone to cuts anyway as he dashes into thick cover and his coat does not seem to offer the same protection that my lab seems to enjoy.

I started a thread about the stolen puppies, I see that has been commented on here. I actually thought twice about starting it because I know what the mumsnet school of thought is about any breeder but then I thought that the welfare of the puppies was the over-riding concern and surely people would see that the puppies concerned will be far better cared for by knowledgeable buyers who have invested in the breed by buying from a reputable breeder than they are if they go to someone who buys a dog for a couple of hundred quid without papers and without a breeder who will take ongoing responsibility. I see I was wrong.
Fwiw I was alerted to the situation by a friend who is a long standing spaniel owner and herself involved in rescue work.

Furthermore - docking. Working spaniels are safer docked - which is why it is still done at the appropriate age for any working dog. You may not like the tyoe of work they do of course. Personally I think seeing a spaniel working at a shoot, covering the ground and working with their handler is pretty jolly glorious.

My father had a ESS that he worked (not hugely regularly, but she did shoot for a few seasons and also went along on training shoots for newbie guns), and she was undocked. Obviously treated every woodland walk like a shoot too, and would be deep in the thickest thickets for hours. I never remember her particularly injuring her tail, although detangling the ears/armpits etc after a big day out took a while! And she had a great wag.

You assumed, puppytheft, and you assumed wrongly. The welfare of dogs will always be my priority. I suspect that you've assumed wrongly about several other posters concerns and priorities too.

I think I summed my own view when I said, "I hope to god that these pups are found safe and sound but am troubled by the "advert" for the breeder and sympathy for HIM that the thefts might bring."

I was originally alerted to the thefts by several fellow rescuers, people of long-standing rescue experience and excellent reputations amongst their peers, none of whom are professionally connected and yet all of whom have expressed exactly the same reservations about this particular breeder as I.

Re docking - Working spaniels might, arguably, be safer docked. This particular "breeder" is NOT aiming specifically at the working market and so therefore should NOT be docking tails. I've no idea how that will be viewed in terms of the law, though I have my suspicions, but I'm willing to hand the details I have over to the correct authorities and let them decide.

Dogbestfriend - I think you need to be more circumspect about your views on a public website. Did you intend to make a public accusation that the breeder concerned is breaking the law?

I am

I am name changing for this. I will ensure that the breeder reads it.

DBF, you are not the be all and end all of the dog world. Yes, you can give good advice and have seen first hand what happens when it goes wrong but please stop the barrage of negativity against breeders and anyone considering getting a dog unless it meets with your approval first. You do not know breeder's circumstances so please stop judging on issues you have no knowledge of. There are lots of good breeders out there (along with those who are bad) but stop tarnishing all with the same brush.

puppytheft, I don't know how many of my posts you've ever read but if you've seen a fair few you'll know that I'm not backwards in coming forwards about dog welfare and that prudence for the sake of self is not something I am bothered about. Why on earth should it be?

My knowledge of dog law regarding rescue, pounds, strays, DDA, Dog Control Orders and soforth is probably pretty good, better than the average owner who's without legal training or who isn't, as I am, otherwise involved in dog welfare. My knowledge of THIS particular area of law is very limited, as I stated above. ATM, going on what little I know and what I have read on the breeder's website, I believe that he is breaking the law.

I know for sure that as a breeder he is an undesirable one to deal with and that his breeding practices are even less moral than the average - see my earlier posts for the reasons why.

So basically we must accept that judegment because you say so? Right.....

I agree with Jugofwater.

jug, we will have to agree to differ. My POV is not based on just my opinion but on what is happening in pounds and vet surgeries day in, day out across the country - the needless slaughter of healthy animals for want of homes. Therefore it's IMHO fair comment that additional breeding is a contributory factor to this appalling state of affairs - a state of affairs that as council taxpayers we ALL fund.

And my views on the practices of this particular breeder are not by any means confined to rescuers or other dog owners. I think that you'll find, for example, that one of MN's members, a regular contributor to this forum and a breeder herself, looks dimly on those who breed without having a list of potential owners and a back-up list, those who find it necessary to advertise pups beyond the breed club and on those who mate more than one breed of dog.

I do have knowledge of breeding in this respect and of acceptable and unacceptable practices and to an extent the laws surrounding breeding.

I note that youll be showing the breeder this - glad to hear it, I can offer you various other comments of a similar nature from several other rescuers, some of whom have been far less charitable or polite than I, which is why I have so far not quoted them. I'm happy for you to quote me and don't feel the need to namechange though I'm wondering why you do?

Oh puppytheft don't be silly, of course you don't have to accept my "judgement", any more than I have to accept yours. I'm merely stating my opinion.

I'm irked by your accusation that the welfare of the puppies is not the overriding concern. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Puppytheft, if you look at the Doghouse, you'll see that DBF regularly posts details of dogs that have been stolen - in all sorts of circumstances. I've also seen that she's given lots of practical advice to anyone who's lost a dog, and regularly advises on how to prevent dog theft - even more important. To me that looks like someone who cares about dog welfare.

I dont' think there is a MN "school of thought" on dog breeding - or any aspect of dog ownership actually - that's partly what makes it so interesting. I'm aware that there are lots of regular posters here who represent responsible breeders, farmers, rescuers, vets, family dog owners and every other permutation and combination imaginable. That variety of views and experience is what makes MN a vibrant place to be - occasionally infuriating, frustrating, and often interesting and informative.

If you want a pro-shooting, gundog training thread, then by all means start one.

I also had concerns about the original link as posted on several rescue sites not least that an email address was being given that was not the original breeders and appeared to be someone who didn't even live in the same area or have any connection with shooting, dogs or their breeding. It also took several days before any information about the theft appeared on the breeders' own website - which initially did look odd, when details were plastered everywhere else.