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The doghouse

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Original poster

why is docking done?

67 replies

misdee · 27/08/2011 20:52

have been following the stolen puppies on facebook, and noticed that the pups are all docked.

why is that?

i thought it was outdated? but am no expert. i think i thoight that as my friend has two dogs, older one is docked, younger one isnt.

OP posts:
PizzaEmpress · 27/08/2011 21:55

Doesn't matter - it's still a key part of their communication and shouldn't be taken from them.

MitchiestInge · 27/08/2011 21:59

I agree, was just thinking out loud.

Is probably for their pack isn't it, team work?

PizzaEmpress · 27/08/2011 22:02

Yes, it could be. My dog (not the old boy - he died a few years ago) is a tail wagger when anxious. It's very, very useful for me to see and I've stepped in and stopped her attacking other dogs because I can see it. It's the most obvious sign - before cowering down or growling or anything. She's a big dog who's afraid of small ones for some silly reason! Confused

rubyrubyruby · 27/08/2011 22:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PizzaEmpress · 27/08/2011 22:03

What breed is your dog and when was he or she docked, ruby? Why did the breeder insist?

MitchiestInge · 27/08/2011 22:06

I have a springer with a docked tail, born just after the law came into force. They were all destined for working homes but plenty of people work them with full tails so I'm not convinced.

MitchiestInge · 27/08/2011 22:06

(I know you were asking ruby, seem to have got comfortable on this thread)

rubyrubyruby · 27/08/2011 22:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PizzaEmpress · 27/08/2011 22:12

Ruby, that was pre-ban then, wasn't it? She wouldn't be allowed to show a docked tailed dog at an event where people could buy tickets now though, unless they were demonstrating the working ability.

rubyrubyruby · 27/08/2011 22:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 27/08/2011 22:18

Why are they docked? Because the Kennel Club is stuck in the last century and because breeders are generally cruel bastards.

PizzaEmpress · 27/08/2011 22:27

I agree, seeker.

DogsBestFriend · 27/08/2011 22:35

In my unprofessional and purely personal opinion, gained through involvement in rescue with all the consequent animal welfare/stolen dogs/puppy farm knowledge that comes with it the breeder who has had these pups stolen is, at best, disreputable.

I had a brief glance at their website this morning and was troubled by the number of pups they breed, that they "specialise" in more than one breed and at the number of bitches and stud dogs owned/seemingly easily available to them.

Futhermore they are clearly not breeding according to a list of prospective owners gained BEFORE mating their bitches, as a reputable breeder would, they are advertising litters bred afterwards as well as prospective litters. They are also offering docked pups to what clearly will be, for some at least, the pet market, which is dodgy ground if not illegal. I suppose that they too, as ruby said, are getting round this by saying that they aren't able to say which pup is going to be used for working purposes... although as Pizza says, "No-one should buy a docked puppy without accompanying certification to prove that the dog has had its tail removed legally and it is intended as a working dog under the categories listed in each region's regulations."

The website for this breeder says that "Will is an A panel judge. His judging appointments have taken him all over the UK and Ireland as well as overseas to Sweden and Denmark. Will has judged the Swedish Championships.

Will judged at the 78th Spaniel Championships at Conholt Park in Andover, Hants in 2008.

Will shot at the 79th Spaniel Championship in 2009 at Belvoir Castle, Leicestershire."

Leaving the shooting aside Angry and the Swedish Championships (Championships by WHOSE authority?) the rest seems almost piffle-waffle as far as I can see though I'm happy to be corrected by the experts on showing - I know nothing about it. WRT "A panel judging" Wiki tells me that "The judges at field trials are appointed by the Field Trial Secretary of the organising club or society, after having been instructed to do so by the committee of the club or society.". To me that suggests that this is not a national standard and takes me back to thinking that it might be piffle-waffle.

I hope to god that these pups are found safe and sound but am troubled by the "advert" for the breeder and sympathy for HIM that the thefts might bring.

I dunno.. maybe I'm over-thinking this and I'd love to hear expert opinion but to me something doesn't make me comfortable about this breeder.

DogsBestFriend · 27/08/2011 22:38

Bugger... let me start again... that first sentence, now I've re-read it, is out of order.

I should have said that "the breeder who has had these pups stolen MIGHT BE disreputable."

Apologies, I really should proof read and get my brain into gear before operating my mouth and typing fingers sometimes.

Original poster
misdee · 27/08/2011 22:39

thank you DBF. that was my general feeling as well.

OP posts:
DogsBestFriend · 27/08/2011 22:39

seeker - the vast majority of breeders are cruel bastards? YES, I agree. The rest, few in number, are misguided IMHO.

seeker · 27/08/2011 22:46

Funny how some working dogs can "safely" have tails, like labradors and sheep dogs, for example, but it's incredibly dangerous for a spaniel to have a tail. Strange, that.

MitchiestInge · 27/08/2011 22:52

well spaniels face very dense cover in a way that labs just don't, I think that's the reason

I'm not wholly convinced that you couldn't trim the feathers on a full tail and it be as safe as when docked

Ripeberry · 27/08/2011 22:59

The owner of the puppies, did they have permission to dock the tails in the first place? How did the robbers know about the puppies?
They are thick if they think they can sell them. Hope they turn up at an animal center somewhere.

hephaestus · 27/08/2011 23:02

I've known spaniels with full tails that shredded them repeatedly whilst out working, they work cover like no other type of dog, completely full on and full speed. They come back covered in blood and it's so hard to get a tail to heal, they only have to wag it once and it's split again, good luck keeping a dressing on a working spaniel for more than five seconds. In that situation I advocate docking.

However, routine docking of a whole litter with no indication of whether they are going to be working dogs or not, and indeed whether they will be a dog prone to tail injury... no, that I don't agree with.

DogsBestFriend · 27/08/2011 23:08

Agree re the problem of an injured tail and keeping a dressing on/it clean etc, as I sadly know with my own GSD when his tail was accidentally injured. But, the fact is that this breeder is advertising on the net, not purely to working homes but to the unsuspecting/unintentionally ignorant pet owner too.

MitchiestInge · 27/08/2011 23:13

does that make sense to you seeker?

it's difficult to describe if you haven't seen them at work but hephaestus has obviously seen more full tails than I have

only know one actual working springer with complete tail and she is still v young

seeker · 28/08/2011 08:18

But most spaniels are not working dogs- my friend's has just had a litter and only one will work but they are all docked -apparently allowed because the mother works. And "desirable" financially because people still expect spaniels to be docked

I think opinion is divided on the necessity of docking even working spaniels. Trimming the feathers is considered sufficient by many people.

MitchiestInge · 28/08/2011 12:16

my own opinion is divided, I can watch my own dog tunnel furiously through dense brambles and see the little white flag of his docked tail and imagine the potential for injury if it was full length - that's just play, not actual work

nobody seems to care much about the docking of lambs' tails or castration of farm animals in general - has always been a bit inhumane

MitchiestInge · 28/08/2011 12:18

I mean without pain relief, not inhumane to neuter