It's me or the dog...

[DavesMummy]

DH and I made a joint decision to get a puppy and he is not coping with the reality at all. He is short tempered with the dog and there is a massive wedge being driven between us - I should point out here that we have been separated for a year and have worked really hard at putting our marriage back together.

It is now at the point where he thinks we should get rid of the puppy for the sake of our family, which includes DD's (5&6). It doesn't help that the pup bit me on the face the other night drawing blood and keeps snapping at the girls.

I don't know what to do. Pup is hard work, but nothing that I didn't expect, and it is putting a strain on everyone. I have to put my family first but can't stop thinking about our poor BC who just wants to be loved :(

BC = border collie?

Are you going to puppy classes?

How old is the puppy? What have you done in terms of training or classes?

Puppies are a nightmare to the uninitiated and that is to be expected, However, an untrained older puppy or dog is not any fun to have around. The one puppy we bred that we have ever had to take back was completely untrained and had been inadvertantly 'trained' to jmp up like mad, pull the lead horrendously, steal food and belongings etc. I saw the pup at 6 monrhs old a couple of weeks before we were asked to take her back and I knew they wouldn't keep her, she was a nightmare. However, none of it was the dog's fault, they were at fault for not training her. She is now 3 and is an absolute pleasure to have around and has been for a long time. She doesn't do any of the 'naughty' things she used to do and is just wonderful.

Obviously you have a huge responsibility to your pup and if you train it well, it will also be a pleasure to have around. The biting is common behaviour in young puppies but can be inadvertantly encouraged and made worse, just like other behaviours.

Personally (and in a very happy marriage) my DH knows only too well that if it ever became a question of 'me or the dog' he would be out the door faster than his legs could carry him...

was this a 'band-aid' puppy? did you get him in an attempt to bring you closer together?

If so it doesn't only need to be loved but it needs to be worked and kept busy.

Border Collies nip - that is what their instinct tells them to do - it is one collie to 100s of sheep and the way to get them moving is to nip the stubborn sheeps heels.

If the dog is frustrated or not kept busy they will go self employed and that may not be what you want them to be doing!

I have Border collies and their average day would be up at 6.00 walked for an hour back for 10 mins of training and the rest breakfast at 8.00ish. Off to work with me as stooge dog for client for hour. Hours agility training. Rest. Then off for walk with clients dogs for one/two hours. Training session and out to dog club most evenings. Supper and relax.

Frequently called out on search and rescue often at night which can mean several hours tracking.
Training for search and rescue two nights a week, agility training at club two nights a week and obedience training at club one night a week.

They are still up for more! So you really seriously need to think do you have the time to give to this collie. Really a bit late as you now have the dog so maybe you need to think how you can increase the time spent with the dog.

Pupppies are hard work and Border collies will give you back over a 100 times what you give them but you have to give to them frequently.

The puppy will snap at the girls if they run past - Border collies are designed to chase fast moving objects - they however can be trained to know when this is appropriate behaviour but it takes time and requires calm consistent handling by all members of the family.

I remember you posted before and had had a bad day. If you are going to rehome the collie make sure you rehome to an active home that can give the dog all it needs. You can advertise on agilitynet and the lucky dog may get an agility home.

I;m with Midori. No-one comes between me and my dogs and there would never be any question of me giving them up.

I have the upper hand on you - my 3 are older. BUT, although 2 of them came to me as adults, my younger GSD was a pup when I took him on. And yes, he was bloody hard work. He could have been a nightmare, he's a huge, strong dog, very bright, into everything, bouncy, on the go all the time. That's why I had to train him, exercise him and keep him occupied mentally too. Still do, obviously.

First thinks first, if your BC is hard work, wear him out. Not just bodily (be mindful of the amount of exercise you are giving growing bones) but mentally. Take him to training classes if you're not already and invest in 1 to 1 classes if necessary.

He's a pup. He isn't snapping, he's playing, pushing boundaries and learning. He will mouth too. They do that, c'mon you BOTH knew that when you took on a BC with 2 young kids in the house.. didn't you?

You see, the problem is, we're up to our mecks in dogs in rescue, we are on our knees, we are struggling, ESPECIALLY at this time of year. And it's at your collie's age or thereabouts that people all too often decide to give up and get rid. Those in most pounds won't be there over Christmas though...

Pounds don't like paying staff Bank Holiday rates and so tend to have a clear out cull, killing all the pound dogs they legally (and sometimes ILLEGALLY) can get away with, to save themselves staff bills.

It's situations like yours which compel decent rescues to insist on meeting ALL the family and being sure that ALL the family want a dog. It's also why many won't rehome to a home with young kids.

And it's why I get a bit cross when someone is blaming a puppy for being a puppy and wants rid, as your husband does...

I am aware that he needs masses of exercise and looked into ALL that before we got him. Unfortunately he is not old enough to walk yet so I can't 'wear him out' in that sense. I spend all my time with the dog, training him, playing with him, running around the garden with him there is nothing else to give him!!

He is booked in to puppy parties and training (as soon as he is old enough) and I am more than happy to walk him for as long as he needs (when he is able).

I don't want anyone to think that I went into this 'half cocked' or am 'lazy' and I can assure you that I am not 'giving up on him' but neither will I put him before my family!! My DH and girls wanted the puppy as much as I did and it isn't a question of me forcing a decision on my husband. If anything, HE wanted the dog more than me!!!

Puppies are bloody hard work. They do make it worth it in the end though.

Along with Val and Midori Dh knows what will happen should he want to live without our dogs. It's not just a matter of 'putting them first', they cannot survive on their own and have very little choice in things. Plus, more often than not, their 'mistakes' are because of our failings.

I also think that rehoming now would give your girls the wrong message about pets. You ccan't just give up on them when things get a bit tough.

You need to have a good hard think now, while it is still cute and very rehomable. Did you get it from a reputable breeder? They should be happy to advise on training matters and/or take the puppy back.

Could you tell us what exactly the puppy is doing that you think is wrong or hard work? A lot of the posters on here have a lot of experience with dogs and many have just bought puppies of their own, they will be more than happy to share tips and experiences with you.

I DO NOT THINK THE PUPPY IS DOING ANYTHING WRONG OR IS HARDER WORK THAN I IMAGINED

WHY DON'T YOU BLOODY PEOPLE READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE YOU VINDICATE ME!!!!!

I am having to make a choice between my family and the dog becaus MY HUSBAND can't cope. I have been separated from my husband for 12 months and have fought long and hard to repair my marriage for the sake of all of us especially my children who have to come first NO MATTER WHAT!

Additionally can you tell us how old he is please? I'm somewhat confused by the fact that he is behaving in a manner that is so much hard work and yet appears to be so young that he cannot yet be walked and therefore who you cannot have owned for very long at all.

WRT the snapping, they do that. Keep your face well away from a young puppy, teach the family to make a shriek noise (High pitched OUCH! will do) when he mouths or jumps up to catch you with his teeth... and tell them to do it EVERY time, consistently. Likewise withdraw your attention, stand up and walk away if he behaves in an undesirable manner and teach the DC that they must not encourage him in games of "chew the hand" or "chew DCs teddy" as it sends mixed messages.

Calm, consistant, repetative, short bursts of training with a family and visitors all working to the same rules, and you'll see the difference. It just takes time.

So your husband is telling you the either dog goes or he does?

I could not live with a man like that.

It seems you have made your choice. You need to contact the breeder asap. Hopefully she might have a waiting list or something and puppy can be rehomed.

erm, why the hell are you shouting? no one is vindicating you. i can only see great advice.

Sorry but it doesn't seem to me, upon reflection, that you came here for advice on how to rear your dog, which, together with rescue, care, health advice and so on, is what we are able to do here. It seems that you have come on here to moan - which is fine, we all do that - and to get sympathy for having to choose between a very young puppy, which two adults willingly took on, allegedly with prior knowledge of the breed's needs, and a fully grown, presumably fully functioning adult human being.

We are dog owners. I rescue unwanted dogs - dogs who would otherswise be put to sleep. Many of us own rescued dogs who had been abandoned. Some on here are vets and vet nurses, one is a responsible breeder, another a behaviouralist... people who know, love and help dogs. One of us has a very, very sick young dog right now, whom she adores and is desperately trying to save. Many of us have seen our dogs die when we would have given our right arms to save them if we could have. Rescue is on it's knees and dogs are being killed in pounds across the country for want of homes, many given up when the going gets tough and the reality of puppy owning overtakes the cute appeal factor. And I am desperately tired having been up until 5am searching for a rescue place for a dog in a pound who was due to be killed at 9 this morning.

So forgive me if sympathy is a bit thin on the ground right now but I'm saving it for your for your puppy.

I think it was me she yelling at because I tried to find out what she was struggling. I mistakingly thought she wanted advise on hwo to handle the puppy better and make things easier.

I actually think she just wants people to say "Oh dear. Yes of course you must chose your adult husband, who can fend for himself and chose to take on responsiblity for this helpless innoccent puppy. Get thee to rescue now. They'll clean up your mistakes for you."

No-one here is going to gve you sympathy for taking on a puppy and then giving up when it gets too hard. No matter what you say is riding on it. As I said I could not live with a man who would do something so callous.

I'm with val. if this dog is so young he cant walk that means you will have had him only a matter of weeks. had you really not considered the teething problems of having a pup? i mean this is no time at all and yet the puppy is too much work for you?

I would return the puppy to the breeder if poss. it'll be much easy to find a new home for him now than more months down the line. An older rescue dog may suit your family situation when you all feel fully ready for a dog.

What does your husband being 'short tempered' with the puppy actually mean? I find that comment quite worrying.

It's no good shouting about how prepared you were when you obviously wern't or these problems wouldn't be arising.

If the puppy came from a reputable breeder who will find it a better home, then I would return it immediately.

It sounds like you don't deserve it at all and if you can't cope with it now, god only knows what you will do when it is a teenager.

"An older rescue dog may suit your family situation when you all feel fully ready for a dog."

WTF?!

Good god no, vjg13, frankly the OP and her husband are NOT the kind of people we would welcome in rescue.

Your DH needs to get a a grip and face up to his responsibilities. What would happen if you had another baby, would he want to give that back if things got really difficult? No? Maybe that's because we don't really get the option of giving babies back. I do wonder what people would do if the option to 'get rid' of dogs was not there. Hopefully think harder before getting them in the first place...

If your DH is the sort of person who puts ultimatums onto you, do you really want to be with him anyway? If he's not giving you ultimatums then why not sit down and discuss things with him and explain that the dog is your responsibility now and you should really stick with it. That things will start to improve very quickly when the puppy is a little older and you can take him for training etc.

If you knew what the pup would be like beforehand, then I'm a little suprised you didn't explain in detail to your DH what having a puppy would be like as surely had he been more prepared he wouldn't be finding it so hard.

Have you crate trained the pup? This would be a huge help as it will givce the pup it's own space away from your DD's and also mean that if everyone needs a break you can pop the pup in there for a short time with a stuffed kong or similar. Some pups never really settle by themselves and like children can get over-excited and tired, so shutting him in the crate for periods on his own may help him settle down for as nap more easily.

Also, I don't really allow my DC to interact with my puppies (excepting whole litters) until the puppy is reasonably able to behave around humans, as it is all too easy for small DC to encourage the wrong behaviour. The DC are allowed to spent time with the pups, but under my strict supervision and with very strict instructions that if the puppy gets too excited to stand up, turn the other way and fold their arms. Then, once pup is a little more 'steady' they can join in with training and walking once the pup knows how to walk on a loose lead.

Stop slagging me off between yourselves on an open forum because unlike some of you I can actually read!!!!!

I have no intention of 'getting rid of my puppy' or sending him to a rescue as you so callously put it. I would never send a dog to a pound or put him in a situation where his life was in danger!!

There is nothing wrong with his behaviour and believe me I have read every puppy / dog training manual going and am employing all the methods you 'helpful' people are suggesting.

He has a crate, and both him and the children regularly have 'time out' as you put it.

Valhalla - if you are still interested he is 10 weeks old. We have unfortunately had him for 4 weeks now as the breeder we got him from wanted him gone, was locking him in a shed and I (forgive me) couldn't bear to see such a young puppy in those conditions and wanted to do the best for him. I have been doing all the things you have suggested with regard to the over excited play and for the most part they are working. The problem in this situation is training my children not the puppy which is extremely difficult at the moment without my husbands support!

Please read I HAVE NOT SAID THE PUPPY IS TOO MUCH HARD WORK FOR ME I HAVE SAID THAT MY HUSBAND DOES NOT FEEL THE SITUATION IS WORKING.

Do not make me out to be some monster!!! I am doing everything for this puppy. I take him out every hour whatever the weather, I play with him, I was up with him all night on his first night home, I have booked him into all the right training courses, puppy parties, socialisation, I have read all the books I can find for help and advice, he is fully vaccinated, microchipped and all the responsible ownwer things. It would be so much easier if I could just take him for a walk, but I HAVEN'T because I am responsible and am waiting until the required 7 days after his vaccinations so that I do not put him at risk!!! I ensure that I do not leave him for too long, that I do not leave him alone with my husband at the moment so as not to undo all the training I have done with him until I can be sure that my husband will support me in this. However, I will not walk out on my marriage, I believe in the vows I took, every last one of them and will always put my family first - that makes me a good wife and mother, not a bad person so DO NOT call me names and slag me off!!

Midori thank you for your advice, it was helpful, non judgemental and supportive. Just what I was hoping to find on this board.

Thank you again.

Have you had an honest discussion with your husband?
(don't shout at me!!!) but I would be very worried about a man who gives up after just 4 weeks because its a bit hard. Don't know your situation though. Good luck.

Reading your original post I do really understand where you are coming from. Puppies are hard work and can cause tension at times. My DH is nearly as obessed with dogs as me and even we can come to grief at times over puppies!

It will get easier - it will get much easier so I (certainly am no marriage expert!)would discuss maybe a time scale with your DH and say lets see how it goes for the next 4 months and nreview the situation again.

I also know that my DH although absolutely brilliant in nearly everything(!) did find the children hard when they were little babies. We acknowledged this and he did more of the hoovering, cooking etc to let me get on with the kids. He loves them to bits and is full on as soon as they can walk! so no biggy just the way we sorted things out.

I hope you can come to a compromise. Also Christmas is a mad time of year so I can imagine that would just aggravate any issues that may be going on with the puppy.

If you need specific help with the puppy I feel more confident in giving advice that works - the above is just my experience!!!

Thank you purpleduck. I have had no end of conversations with him and am (very slowly) beginning to get through to him. I can understand his reasons (to some extent) but do not agree with them. It has all ben exaccerbated due to kids being home (on a very excitable) school holiday and the puppy not having had a chance to settle in properly because he was too young when we got him.

Rightly or wrongly have managed to get DH to agree to take no action and work with me until girls are back at school and I have had a chance to get him settled into regular walks and some training classes.

Funny minimu, I was writing my reply to purpleduck at the same time as yours. It is nice to see that there are some people out there with good solid, helpful, non-judgemental advice. I appreciate it