It's me or the dog...

[DavesMummy]

DH and I made a joint decision to get a puppy and he is not coping with the reality at all. He is short tempered with the dog and there is a massive wedge being driven between us - I should point out here that we have been separated for a year and have worked really hard at putting our marriage back together.

It is now at the point where he thinks we should get rid of the puppy for the sake of our family, which includes DD's (5&6). It doesn't help that the pup bit me on the face the other night drawing blood and keeps snapping at the girls.

I don't know what to do. Pup is hard work, but nothing that I didn't expect, and it is putting a strain on everyone. I have to put my family first but can't stop thinking about our poor BC who just wants to be loved :(

I'm in somewhat of a similar situation as you OP. I've had dogs in the past, DH hasn't, and we recently got a puppy. DH is finding it is a lot harder than he expected. One morning he said to me (recanted later)-- 'if he doesn't get better, he's going to have to go'. I was livid, but kept my temper and kept puppy out of his way for a while.

Some things that have sort of helped us:

1. When the puppy is being good, calling DH's attention to it and saying 'look, he's being so lovely, isn't he sweet' etc.

1. Reminding DH that we have to praise the puppy when we see behaviour we like (i.e. chewing his toys and not everything else)

1. Guilt. Frankly, guilt works quite well. 'Do you want to explain to DS why the puppy had to go? He'll see pictures of this lovely puppy later when he's older and want to know why he's not around'

1. Calling his attention to how much the puppy has improved since he got here 'isn't it great he can hold it all night now?' (not that it mattered much to him, as I did the night toileting!)

You sound like you are trying so hard, I really feel for you. I've got a very strong marriage and even with that the puppy is testing us!

DP and I actually talked about the potential 'it's me or the dog' situation and agreed that if either of us demanded that the other made this choice, we'd choose the dog. Because we're both capable adults who could support and fend for ourselves if we split, whereas the dog can't and depends on us for food, shelter and love, so our first responsibility is to him. He'd be unlikely to find a new home through rescue due to his age, breed and some health problems (a healthy young collie pup would probably have a much better chance if it did come to that) so would likely be put to sleep, and anyway the poor thing has been rehomed twice already and we made a committment to give him his 'forever home'.

Any man who thought that was less important than his own convenience probably wouldn't be someone I wanted to be with anyway. I think you can often tell a lot about a person from their attitude towards animals (or towards anyone helpless and vulnerable) and would have no time for someone who was callous or indifferent about animals' needs and suffering.

OP I think you have had good advice here and am not sure why you're so angry. Also, I don't think 'vindicate' means what you think it means...

Thank you Yank it is nice to hear from someone else that doesn't have "the perfect husband" and has come through it. I appreciate your advice and will work through your suggestions. Thanks again and have a good xmas

OP.......sounds like you're in a dreadful sitation. Your marriage or your puppy? You sound fully prepared to give this pup the best start if life, but are lacking the support of your husband. :(
I think there are a few people on here who responded to your first post whilst assuming some things about you where you'd left gaps/leading you to believe they'd made assumptions about you. I can understand that this would make you feel upset, but I can assure that the people who post here simply have the dogs best interests at heart (that may be obvious though!)
I think it sounds as if you're doing a great job (despite your DH) and you should seriously talk to him. Is it really breaking point 4 weeks into having this pup? Why is it so much different than he imagined? Is he involved with any training....would that help?

Sorry Epiphany, I meant vilify. Am having particularly rough time at the moment and picked the wrong word in the heat of the moment.

I have been extremely upset by many of the hurtful comments made on here by people who do not know me and are making assumptions. I don't disagree that there have been some helpful comments / advice on this post but there has also been a lot of mud slinging and name calling that I do not need or deserve.

Another one I've used which has been mentioned by someone else, again in the 'Guilt' domain:

'You find DS really frustrating at times, maybe we should give him back? Oh that's right, we CAN'T. If it's not an option for DS, it's not an option for the puppy. We made a choice to have him and love him and take care of him, same as we did for DS'

The positive reinforcement works with people as well as dogs. Be as relentlessly positive as you can about the puppy.

I think my DH's problem was that the only dogs he'd ever met were either very badly behaved from lack of training, or absolutely lovely (from training and being older). He really liked my dad's dogs. The challenge now is getting him to understand they weren't always like that that. They were puppies at one stage who peed everywhere, ate interior doors and lino, barked incessantly, etc. Our puppy is very well behaved in comparison!

OP why on earth are you being so aggressive?

Nobody has called you a name, the only person who has shouted and sworn is you.

erm, who was slagging? again, all i can see is advice and questions WRT your situation.

my dh finds our dog harder work than i do. the difference is, i was raised with dogs so know what to expect, he wasnt so have unrealistic expectations iyswim.

erm, vindicating means something else altogether.
you possibly mean villifying.
sorry, pedantic aside

sorry i realise it's been said before. should read the whole thread before i post.

If I'm completely honest, as a dog lover/ vet...I think you should seriously consider rehoming the puppy while he is still young and cute. Sorry, but I see soooooo many of these guys where one partner isn't too keen, and they nearly always culminate in rehoming when the dog is a year old and more difficult to place

I'm also less than enthusiastic about border collies with people who have a young family- these guys don't just need exercise, they need the kind of stimulation that others have talked about- agility, training, that sort of thing. They are not the kind of dog that will be happy with a couple of walks round the block a day and a snooze, and you need to be sure that you can fulfill all his needs, not just whether or not he can fulfill yours. Collies, especially if farm bred, are super alert and intelligent and really need mental as well as physical stimulation, otherwise they do get frustrated and start to nip. Obviously at 10wks this isn't the reason why your particular dog is nipping, but I'm concerned that your DH doesn't seem to be 100% behind you on this, because often the time needed by a pup can lead to resentment.

My DH isn't a great fan of my dogs- they are old, smelly, mad and disobedient (beagles!) but I had them before I had him. the deal is that I do all the cleaning up of poo/wee etc (and believe me there is a lot of that now that old boy is 15 1/2 and a good few sandwiches short of a picnic) and I do all the walks etc (unless DH feels like it!). I accept this as getting a dog was not his decision and mine are fairly problematic (!) But if it had been a joint decision and he wasn't pulling his weight, I can imagine it would be a HUGE bone of contention.

If you are busy trying to save your marriage, I wouldn't be trying to also have the time and energy to devote to a pup. Sorry

We have a 6 month old pup and dh finds him harder work than me. He will moan about the dog and leaves most of the walks to me. But it's lovely to see them cuddling up together on the settee in the evening.

Pup even sleeps on our bed on dh's legs much to dh's horror

Does your dh have much to do with the pup? It's important that he builds a bond with him otherwise he will never really feel the dog is his.
I don't think my dh would even try competing with my dog, he wouldn't stand a chance lol
We've had our pup for 4 months and it is a thousand times easier now than when we got him. He isn't perfect but he is very close!

I was actually in the situation where I had to choose between my partner and the dog HE had wanted. I chose the dog. Then got another one. We lived happily ever after.

But we didn't have DCs. I can see why this would make the situation very different.

I have to say I would agree with Jooly in terms of your choice of breed. Any puppy is time consuming but a Border Collie is not a dog that can just "fit in" around a family (for want of better words - sorry I'm knackered) - especially one where you are obviously needing to devote a lot of time to your marriage. If I were in your situation, I would (aside from choosing the dog ) rehome the dog now while he is still a cute cuddly pup rather than a boisterous adolescent at a later stage - who has possibly gotten into bad habits due to the current instability surrounding him - if you think that your DH may not come around. From what you have said about the way he is preventing you from teaching your children how to interact with the pup because of lack of support, I just don't feel the pup is in a fair situation. I'm not criticising your efforts - it sounds as though you are doing everything in your power to keep the pup and everyone else happy.

Equally though, it's a bit of a funny time of year to be rehoming dogs. If you did go down this route you'd need to take the advice of someone more knowledgeable than me, but personally I'd be worried about rehoming him privately because of the excitement of a puppy wearing off after Christmas, etc, and January being such a skint time of year for people. It's a tricky one. Maybe you could talk to a local BC rescue and discuss your options.

I'm trying to be constructive so please don't shout me down. I genuinely wish you the best. You are in an awful position and it must be very hard for you.

"personally I'd be worried about rehoming him privately because of the excitement of a puppy wearing off after Christmas, etc,"

That's the least of his problems. Worse still is him being bought by someone imposing as a genuine collie lover who will put him back in a shed and breed him constantly. He could be merely abused or tormented by kids all his life or neglected by a family who are equally unsuited to owning him.

Or he could be taken by someone who will use him as bait for fighting dogs. And please don't think these things don't happen. I know of several people in rescues who are innundated with such dogs.

Private rehoming, unless you know the person you're rehoming to 101%, unless you are willing and able to take the dog back at any stage of his life should the rehome fail and unless you are able to ask the questions and anticipate the problems through a rescue's eyes, should not be considered.

Very sound advice, Valhalla.

I'm just feeling a bit sad about another puppy not 100% wanted at Christmas.

It is sad Gay, but I think the OP is trying very hard to make it work and recognises it is her DH who needs more 'training' and not the pup. I can think of loads of people who are less committed to their dogs unfortunately.

If you decide you need to rehome your puppy, Valgrays and Wiccaweys are two border collie rescues which may be able to help you.

sounds like your much more into dogs than your husband which is making life difficult for you at the moment.you have the kids off school and and a excitable pup most likely causing chasos and driving your hubby up the wall.

but you do seem to have everything worked out and its only difficult because you cant take the pup out and wear him out.once your able to walk him and do some of the activities planned things should hopefully settle down.

DavesMummy, how soon can you start puppy training classes? Most will take from fairly young - the one we go to will take as soon as safe after vaccinations.

The reason I ask is not for you, but for your DH. Our puppy is 8 months, bouncy, lively, into everything and I adore her! However, DH found her more difficult. The solution was to make sure he took her to puppy classes. If your husband can go to a good, reward based puppy class (with the puppy, obviously!) it will give him positive things to do with the dog when he is finding it hard. He can let off steam to someone else about what he finds difficult and they can give him lots of advice as to things he can do.

At the moment you seem to be the one putting all the effort into this. Get him to agree that he will at least do a puppy class course before you make a decision - it's really early days yet. You can both go, or you may find it better if he goes and reports back to you, thus putting him in the driving seat. This helped my DH a lot. I could nag him over things until I was blue in the face but the minute the trainer told him (the exact same thing!) he became Mr. Vigilant with her training, making sure the rest of the family were rewarding the positive etc!

We are off to beginner dog class later in January as hubby Poppy passed the puppy class with flying colours!

Get your husband to agree to this and then someone else can hopefully make him see sense.

This really makes me appreciate my DP. After years of pestering and rash promises on my part ("They won't cost much to run... I'll make sure they never drop any hair... of course they'll never bark...") he finally relented and let me get a pup. We ended up taking the dam as well and predictably, despite my best efforts, the pale living room carpet isn't QUITE what it was, and there are a few holes in the skirting board...

He's been great though; for a completely non-doggy person he puts up with a lot and he's grudgingly fond of them now. And of course whenever he gets the chance to show off junior dog's tricks, or we win a competition, he's all beamy and "Oh yes, OUR dogs are very good, really"...