i think my dog's pg, do i need to do anything?

[MrsRhettButler]

hi, i think my little staffie is pg, she was jumped on at least 3 times by my other dog last time she was in season (about 4 weeks ago) and she is looking portly around the belly and her nipples are swollen

will she be ok if left to do her thing? do i need to do anything special? i've always had dogs but never a pg one so just need to know what if anything i need to do, thanks

korma, all that has already been said.

OP intends to have her dog spayed either if the dog isn't pregnant or after the birth. she has explained taht both her dogs have had health checks. she has already started lining up homes for teh pups and has been advised to look for around 10 homes. she has said she will keep any dogs she cannot find a good home for. Op explained that her DH wanted a puppy that was a mix of her 2 dogs (which is why the dog wasn't spayed) as they have only had rescue dogs in the past. she has been approaching rescues over the years to try and get a puppy but with no success. she is aware that 5 is quite old to be having a first litter which is why she is taking her to the vet!!!

i shall keep my knickers wherever i like korma.

it seems like that because in all likelyhood it was an accidental mating. and i see nowhere where she is trying to find the positive. she asked what she should do. other posters have already pointed out that this was irresponsible on her part and also advised her on how best to deal with it. your post seems to serve no purpose other than to point out OP's mistake again. and you say she is behaving irresponsibly. no she isn't. she might have behaved irresponsibly in letting her dog get pregnant but she is now behaving responsibly be asking what she should do about the situation for the best interests of all dogs involved.

well what's the point in saying it again? just to make yourself feel better for having a go?

thank you booy,

korma, before i read the information given me on this post i had no idea of the extent of the problem, ok, i knew there were lots of dogs in need of homes so call me thoughtless if you like but i didn't think it was a problem breeding new puppies as long as we found good homes for them and we know a lot of good doggy people (you hear of people breeding dogs all the time, i didn't realise it was such a big problem)

my dp would not have changed his mind anyway, he has been trying to mate our little dog for a couple of years to no avail (she doesn't like other dogs) we have recently rescued a new dog and she has warmed to him, i really didn't think she would let him near her but she did (that is why the dog is 5 and having her first (and only) litter)

and there is no need to call her a 'poor girl' she is very well looked after and a happy dog with plenty of exercise and love

Your bitch is too old for a first litter, she could die.

As both parents have Staff in them, the pups could be born with L2-HGA which is a life limiting condition and can mean they may need to be put to sleep. They could also have hereditary cataracts.

Your vet can give mismate injections up to 6 weeks after the mating to abort the pups. Or, he/she may agree to 'emergency' spay her.

Think of your bitch and her potential pups please, not what you want. The situation could end up, dead bitch, sick pups, dead pups... do you have the £1000 plus for an emergency c-section if she requires it? Do you have the other £1000 plus it takes ot rear a litter properly from birth?

There are hundreds and hundreds of puppies in rescue. Litters like yours who cannot be sold so get handed in to the pound. Everyone has several friends who would offer a pup a home, but IMO these are not the right homes as they are having the puppy because it is there, not because they have thought long and hard about it and bothered to actually actively go out and look for a pup.

The best thing for the bitch here, IMO, is to terminate her pregnancy.

Did you contact the vet about her today?

Totally agree with midori1999

Staffy and staffy-x puppies are not just languishing in rescue, but in pounds being euthansised when their 7 days are up because people don't want them - there are just too many.

Perhaps you could explain to your DP that the problem of dog overpopulation (and mass euthansia in the country's pounds each day) is created and perpetuated 'just one litter' at a time.

Better still, print this off and give it to DH.

Sometimes it takes a lot for a breeder such as Midori and a rescuer like me to agree on anything. I'm sure Midori made her suggestion wrt spaying/termination with just as much of a heavy heart as I did.

The alternatives however could well ne far worse.

I agree with the midori and Val, sorry, I understand it was anaccident and that you were unaware of the extent of the problem and see no need to have a go, but please consider stopping this before it starts.

Just to check as well that you are aware that insutrance doesn't usually cover anything to do with whelping so any emergency treatment your bitch needed would all be down to you.

The cost of a large litter will be quite considerable, people are telling the truth when they say there is no money to be made from breeding dogs.

I have a pedigree puppy who came from a litter of 10 they were sold (8 of them) for £450 each, the breeder joked with me that she enjoyed a really good night out on the profits all £80 of it.

the breeder i got my pup from said she needed her dog to have 4 pups to break even.
As it happened, her dog had 8 but is now very seriously ill.

I am waiting to see what the outcome to this story will be. I really hope that everything turns out well for everyone involved.

hi all, firstly thanks for all your advice, we have called the vet who said that she can have a scan if we want but nothing else he can really 'do' until she either births the puppies or not, he said to call if she is having difficulty and someone will come out if necessary he says dogs are pg for 63 days? so we should know by around the 20th of this month.

will keep thread updated anyway

"Nothing else he can really do"?

Sorry, but I don't see that (referring back to *Midori's) suggestions.

BTW, I think I owe Midori an apology having just re-read my own post. My post above about us rarely agreeing sounded like a slight and disrespectful. What I meant is that we come from different ends of dog-interest and that rescuers like me don't believe that breeding and buying is the right thing to do given what we see.

However, I have highest esteem for Midori, who is incredibly knowledgable and wonderfully helpful and polite to people on here, myself included, despite our differing outlooks.

SORRY MIDORI, I didn't mean to sound rude!

It's fine, Valhalla, I get what you meant. I think the reason we are inclined to agree on things is the fact that we are both really 'in it' for the dogs. Plus, there are breeders and there are breeders...

OP, I would find another vet, really I would. You NEED to know if she is pregnant. If you are determined to continue a pregnancy if she is pregnant, she will need worming daily from day 42 and you will need to change her food to puppy food and a good quality one. You will also need to sort out some sort of whelping box for he to have her puppies in and she should NOT be left alone to give birth. Neither should she be left unsupervised with the puppies for at least the first two weeks, prefably longer. That means someone should sleep (lightly!) with her too.

Bitches can be scanned easily from about 30 days post mating. A phantom can be extremely similar to an actual pregnancy and you really need to scan to confirm. It's simply not good enough to just see what happens and I am appalled a vet has suggested this.

Something I have just realised. When you say she was 'jumped on' by your other dog, what exactly do you mean by that? Was he 'humping' her or were they actually tied? If it's the latter and the dogs were left to their own devices, I would say it is pretty likely she is in whelp.

Go and buy a copy of 'Book Of The Bitch' by Evans and White. (Amazon will have it) If that doesn't outline the risks enough for you, it will at least give some practical advice on how to deal with the whelping.

thanks for all your advice midori, the vet said 63 days altogether (is that right?) in which case she is on day 49 ish so will get puppy food and do you mean worming tablets? really daily? dp is looking online about that now, yes, they definitely tied, we had one outside and one inside we were attempting to keep them separate and dd opened the back door, i came out and they were tied (it happened twice, the other time he jumped the gate and by the time i shouted at him they were tied)

i wouldn't dream of leaving her alone to birth and i will sleep in the living room, i am a very light sleeper

i think vet said £60 if i wanted a scan so will maybe try to make an app for that

should i be able to feel the puppies moving around yet?

If she is on day 49 then it's too late for alizin injections to abort anyway, and personally, although I would consider spaying a bitch to abort, I am not sure I could on day 49. For future reference, if you get an 'unwanted' mating, get her to the vet ASAP for alizin.

Wormer is panacur liquid, daily from day 42, so you're a bit late, but get some from your vet anyway. It isn't cheap, but you can use it for the puppies too from 3 weeks. (although I personally use drontal puppy suspension for pup and panacur for the bitch whilst she is in whelp)

Your girl is really at risk. 5 is old for a first litter. I would really suggest you buy 'Book Of The Bitch' to read up on whelping and what will happen, what you will need and what can go wrong. Things like the bitch chewing the umbilical too short can cause a puppy to bleed to death if you are not prepared for it. Bitches can also get very frightened when the first puppy is delivered and try to bolt/bite people. It has also been known for bitches to turn around and kill the first puppy as soon as it is out. You need to be prepared for all eventualities. You need to make sure you can get hold of your vet once she is in labour and have access to a car in case of an emergency. Even if everything goes swimmingly, you really need to get the vet out the morning after the pups are born to check them over for things like cleft palate (if they have one they may slowly starve to death) and that the bitches milk is coming in well, there are no puppies left inside her etc.

Your bitch really needs a scan ASAP so you can sort out wormers and puppy food for her, a good quality one. She will need several small meals if she has pups in her and once she whelps she will need lots of smallish meals per day and plenty of fluid. 63 days is right, but she needs watching 24/7 from day 58 at the latest.

Expect a food bill of up to £100 per week as the puppies grow, plus worming, bedding, toys, vet checks. Hopefully she won't need an emergency c-section, but it's more likely given her age. This would cost £1000 plus. It's a very expensive business.

Please let us know how you get on at the vets.

If they were all like you Midori, there would be far less need for those like me.

I've learned a lot from your last post, breeding not being my field, so to speak and am wildly impressed by the knowledge and care of a responsible breeder.

All I see and hear of usually are the pups and mums which aren't as lucky. :(

thank you midori, i will buy the book. i do appreciate the time you have taken to give me advice

tbh i didn't even realise until it was mentioned that they did dog terminations i guess i'd just never thought about it.

i do drive so would be able to in an emergency and will make sure i get the out of hours vet number

thanks again and i will update

Thanks Midori that is alot of advice there and I never knew that either!! Same reason as valhalla. We only get the end result not the middle.

I do hope all goes well and do please keep us all as updated as you can. I'm really invested in this little girl now.

glad you are being pro active about this mrsRB. i really hope this goes as well as possible. great advice there from midori (as always ) you have a busy few months ahead of you.

Can I just second buying that book, I found it really helpful.

However, I had my first litter out of my whippet 9 weeks ago. My mother is a KC accredited breeder but even she did not think my dog was about to whelp as she showed NONE of the classic signs. Her temp did not drop and she did not go off her food, she was also 4 days early.

However at about midnight she started digging and crying and 5 hours later pups appeared. Thankfully my DP was up late as I had gone to bed and he woke me as soon as she started digging and I was able to assist her with the birth of the seven healthy pups. Really wonderful experience but quite scarey as both of us were learning 'on the job' what to do.

Out of the litter, we had one 'weak' pup who did not develop at the normal rate. We took him to the vet who thought he would die . However, we were determined to give him a chance and he was give special time one-to-one with mum 4 times a day plus early weaning. Massive amount of time given to him but worth it as he survived, caught up with the others and I sent him off to his new home with a 'perfect score' on his vet check But it is worth being aware that a sickly pup can cost you a lot of money, take up a lot of time, break your heart and might not even survive. It was really really worrying when this pup was so weak.

A litter of puppies even if nothing goes wrong - which it could well do - is a huge time committment. From about 3 weeks (weaning) they need feeding 5 times a day, they need cleaning out at least once a day (more if you are keeping them indoors a lot), you have to spend many hours talking to potential owners and opening up your house to them... it is not something to be taken lightly. I enjoyed it but was really surprised at just how much hard work it was and I am on matleave so have a lot of time 'at home'. I can't imagine rearing a litter of pups and holding down a full time job.

Hope it goes well. Just thought I would share my experiences as a first time breeder.

I would just like to add that IMO, puppies do not need 'cleaning out' once a day, they need someone constantly there to clean up poo after them, or they will play in it, lay in it, roll in it, eat it and generally learn to live in their own filth.

I also think that puppies should have a human with them virtually the whole time. Part of the breeders 'job' is to socialise the puppies. This includes getting them used to human contact, household noises, other noises such as fireworks etc (CD's available for this) getting them used to objects such as umbrellas etc and also teaching the pups to spend time on their own away from litter mates. The latter is extremely time consuming. 10 puppies having 'alone time' 2-3 times a day each for 10-20 minutes or so a time (age dependant) is a lot of time out of your day on top of the time already taken with feeding, cleaning up after, playing with, attempting to toilet train etc. I also like my puppies to have had at least one or two trips out of the house before they leave. What happens whilst they are with the breeder sets those pups up for life. Rearing a litter of puppies properly is a full time job.

"cleaning out" once a day is how it works with my mother's litters as they have constant access to the garden and within a very short time only toilet outside (other than at night when they are shut in for safety/warmth). Obviously in the early days it is more.

I have never attempted, nor would I, rearing a litter indoors without free-range garden access as I do not believe it is healthy for the puppies' developing hearts, bones and lungs but if one did do this, I can well imagine that one would have to clear up after them constantly. However this does depend on the breeeder set up.

Not arguing with you midori, clearly you are very experienced but just felt I had to explain our set-up as I assumed you were refering to my post when you put 'cleaning out' in inverted commas as if you were quoting me. Also I made no reference to the massive task of socialisation but I agree that this is the bulk of the labour - albeit the most fun part also!