Deborah 13 Servant of God

[UnquietDad]

So didn't anybody watch this? I thought you'd be all over it!

I felt very sad for her. I thought her big brother touched on an element of the truth when he said that she shouldn't be dwelling on stuff like eternal damnation when she is just 13.

I found her questioning creepy - the way she painted people into a corner to make them admit they are "a bad person". As was the "what if one of them was hit by a bus and you hadn't spread the good news?"

One scene got me angry - Deborah and her brother leaning on the gate looking at the fields and mocking the Big Bang and saying you had to be "stupid" to believe such a belief. They sounded about 7. Hopeless.

I can understand her parents' desire to protect her from the ills of the world, but you don't do that by never letting your child actually go out and have a life. The way the documentary presented it, it's as if there are only two choices as a teenager - be an evangelical Christian not doing any "normal" teen things, or hang round the bus shelter smoking and drinking like that crowd she tried to spread the "good news" to. Hmm, funny how she didn't go round any of the orchestras, choirs, music groups, sports teams, youth clubs and so on which thousands of teenagers are involved in during the evening.

I also had to laugh at her father's touching naivety - no TV in the bedroom (which I approve of) but they can have computers. Ever heard of iPlayer, mate??

(Oh, and I don't have the world's best gaydar, so I may be totally off here, but I reckon Matthew is going to give Mum and Dad a bit of a surprise in a year or two...)

Yes, but I don't see why they would. But then I don't see anything wrong with her doing it.

She has never known any other kind of life so has no yardstick to set it against.

The people she was questioning also gave in far too easily. I'd have liked to hear someone say words to the effect of: well, set against those impossible standards of perfection, nobody is ever going to be 'good', so obviously that line of questioning is setting me up for a Fall. On balance I've done lots of good things in my life and the few small bad things I have done are very, very minor in comparison. I've not done anything harmful to anyone. I know that doesn't work theologically, but then I don't believe in original sin so that's just as well!

well, I think she's getting plenty of views through her blog now.

And yes, I think that's what I mean about that particular method she's using - it's ok as far as it goes, but it's not terribly flexible.

Fair enough Kay and presumably her parents agree with you since she was . Using children as recuruiting officers just seems, a bit well seedy to me really.

Agree with Unquietdad not sure her proclamations would have withstood much challenge. Surely that will happen and probably not in a particularly pleasant manner at which point being 13 and out on the street engaging with drunks might not be the best plan.

Anyhoo I need to get on with essay writing so leave Deborah to her mission.

Oh, I agree with that - but she wasn't alone, and I seriously doubt that she would be allowed out to witness alone anyway. That was set up for the documentary.

It didn't come across as her parents using her as a recruiting officer to me, it seemed very much springing from her own views, which could obviously not even be repressed at a student party.

Enjoy working on your essay, though.(at this time of night? Yikes, I need to get to bed...)

ive just watched this and i think she has a lovely family - bit too obsesed with going to hell - but all teens must have thier emotional angst and i think this is hers. i think her life is enviable in many ways.

I watched this last night.

All the people in it were so nice- the calm Mum, the friendly Dad, involved with his children, the brother so loving and attentive to his sister. And I think many 13 yo girls take a slightly obsessive look at life.

But I was chilled that a 13 yo girls is being brought up to believe that she 'belongs' to her father until he 'gives' her to another man.

And foisting hard-sell religion on to other people's children under the guise of a puppet show without making it clear in the advertising is Not All Right.

How do the family make a living? All those mouths to feed, and they had computers, and Matthew has a car...

i thought that they were farmers - becuase they lived on what looked like a farm - but i could be wrong.

Where they shagging sheep? That's a clue as to whether they were farmers or not.

What are we talking about anyway?

The puppet show was appalling. I'd have walked out. The fact that it wasn't advertised as a Christian puppet show indicates from the start that they knew it would be a problem if it was.

All the computers made me a bit

I watched this on catch-up - jaw on the floor for most of the time!

Actually fell on the floor laughing when the mum-of-11-kids said "we only wanted 2 children but decided to let the lord open and close the womb".

Ah God stuff. Sorry.

I'm presuming evangelists?

Fundamentalist evangelical family, living in farmhouse in deepest Dorrrrrrrrrrrrrrset. The documentary focused on the 13-year-old daughter. She has a blog - linked to above.

Hmm, I'd rather not delve too deeply, they just piss me off.

It's a form of abuse, what they do to those kids. Hopefully the daughter will grow out of it, just as soon as her hormones kick in.

Thanks for the blog link, I must check that out.

I wish the teenagers she'd been lecturing to had actually told her, "but we don't believe in god".

Another LOL moment was when she said grace over the KFC takeaway, when all the other students were already stuffing their faces.

oo, I've been there, though - already tucking in when someone else is saying grace. I felt like Harrison Ford in Witness. And I don't get to say that everyday.

Didn't see the programme but have just looked at her blog and done the 'are you a good person' test. Rather predictably, I am going to Hell. I find it very frightening that a 13 yr old should think like this

UQD - sorry, I've only just read the whole thread, was too eager to post! I didn't like the mocking of the Big Bang either - the laws of physics prove it, for a start.

Matthew is definitely gay. In denial, of course, which is why he hates the Katy Perry song - methinks the lady doth protest too much!

UQD - but the problem was that all the children were excited about seeing a puppet show and would be v upset to be hauled out as soon as it started. That's why I really objected to the emotional blackmail set up. And it wasn't honest. Dishonesty isn't confined to telling lies. Which Deborah could do well to ponder.

Puppetry is inexplicably quite a big thing among evangelical youth workers. I have no idea why, so I'm afraid I can only shrug my shoulders in bafflement about that particular bit of the film.

"the laws of physics prove it, for a start."

erm nope

thats why its a 'theory'

I am a little-bit-tittering at the po-faced censure of some banter between a brother and sister about creation, tbh.

Funnily enough, some of us do think the idea that the universe just happened is an odd thought, and even Christians have been known to employ hunour between themselves.

Because you know, I know that none of you would ever mock something you thought was ridiculous...

I meant humour, naturally, lest you all start googling this strange new thing that Christians apparently do...

yeah, 'just happening' and then there was BANG and God said "what the fuck was THAT? Michael, have you dropped your shield again?"

Good point about dishonesty Blu.

Big bang a theory supported by evidence. Once can argue until blue in the face about whether this constitutes "proof", but it is at least evidence, and a lot of it. So, as with evolution, those who say it's "just" a theory are right on the "theory", wrong on the "just".