Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Telly addicts

Is anyone else ridiculously excited about this week's Tudors?

94 replies

cornsilk · 03/10/2008 16:53

I couldn't bear it to begin with and now am a bit obsessed with it. It's the Henry effect.

OP posts:
wessexgirl · 04/10/2008 08:30

Oh, right, sorry I misunderstood .

LaVie · 04/10/2008 09:00
Grin
LaVie · 04/10/2008 09:02

(that was to Bouncingturtle)

expatinscotland · 04/10/2008 12:16

'loved the way they showed little elizabeth listening to the 2 women discussing marriage. You'll either die in childbirth or the plague.

Oh so that's why she never married!'

She told Robert Dudley in childhood that she never wanted to marry or have children, although it was probably from example rather than overhearing anything.

Her paternal grandmother, Jane Seymour and Katherine Parr - to whom she was very close - all died of childbed fever. Then of course, her mother and Katherine Howard - she was definitely aware for what happened to Katherine Howard, who was very young, but very foolish.

Elizabeth learned her lesson with Thomas Seymour, who very nearly cost her her honour and reputation. That NEVER happened again.

Even in the wake of the strange death of Robert Dudley's first wife, she was quick to distance herself from him so as not to be tainted by any sort of scandal.

TheOldestCat · 04/10/2008 17:35

Interesting. Whereas Mary, who would also have been aware of how dire the results of marriage could be, was desperate to marry wasn't she?

And was it Lady Dudley who fell/was pushed down the stairs?

expatinscotland · 04/10/2008 17:41

Yes, Lady Dudley was found dead at the bottom of a flight of stairs.

Hard to say what exactly happened, although her closest companion did remark she may have 'got an evil toy in her mind'. IF her death had been ruled a suicide it would have been incredibly disgraceful, however.

There is no evidence of Amy Dudley ever having been pregnant, despite Robert's erm, not having any impediment to fathering children , and she was said to be ill.

She did indeed quite vehemently dismiss her servants on the day of her death.

Mary Stewart most definitely did not embrace celebacy, to say the least .

She was most impatient to remarry after her first husband's death - and her second one's, too.

watsthestory · 04/10/2008 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

scampadoodle · 04/10/2008 17:58

At the time, before he got fat, Henry VIII was considered incredibly handsome & god-like, as were his sisters. He was about 6'2".

Read Antonia Fraser's 6 Wives of Henry VIII - it's fascinating.

LittlePushka · 04/10/2008 19:27

Oh Expat,...why were my history teachers never as interesting as you?? You are quite marvellous!

Do you teach/lecture in history?

Should have gotten Prince Harry in to do the role...but agree Ray (not Robert!) Winston was great in his portrayal.

SparkyFartDust · 04/10/2008 19:29

expat your historical knowledge wonderful- Do you/ did you work in this field?

expatinscotland · 05/10/2008 00:34

I just like medieval history. I studied a fair amount of it at university, learned to read and write Old French, stuff like that.

Yes, Henry was good-looking, for a while.

By the time he married Howard, however, he was fat and had a stinky, nasty, pussy ulcer on his leg.

Henry's maternal grandmother, Elizabeth Woodville, and grandfather, Edward IV, were considered incredibly good-looking.

In fact, his maternal grandmother was so beautiful it was shocking when his maternal grandfather married her, as, although she was not a commoner she was considered well beneath him. She had, however, been widowed and given birth to two sons, so her obvious fertility put her in somewhat good stead.

And she started to churn out the babies immediately.

But she was very vain, as was the rest of her family, who threw their weight round hte court once Elizabeth became queen.

Her sons by the king, however, became the famous Princes in the Tower, murdered by or on the orders of their father's brother, Richard III.

Henry VII married the princes' eldest sister, Elizabeth of York, with the idea of strengthening his claim to the throne, he being the last British monarch to rule by right of conquest.

And if you want to see a medieval example of a MIL from hell, look no further than Henry VII's mother!

TheOldestCat · 05/10/2008 10:50

Oh interesting stuff, thanks.

Have you read The Daughter of Time by Josephine Tey? It's brilliant - all about a policeman in the 60s investigating the Princes in the Tower case. Interesting theory that Henry Tudor (VII to be) had a good case for getting rid of the boys, as by legitimising Elizabeth of York (the princes' sister) to strenghten his claim to the throne, he legitimised them too, making their claim much stronger than his.

It's a good read anyway...

LittlePushka · 05/10/2008 22:52

Just remembered my choice of Henry,...t'would be James Spader. A red rough boy much more suited to Henry I am sure!

Hes on CH 4 now and reminded me.!

expatinscotland · 05/10/2008 23:23

Yes, because the real problem would be that Henry Tudor had no access to the Tower or anyone in it at the time the boys disappeared. He was actually very busy at the time trying to escape Richard III's attempts to get rid of him and spent much of Richard's reign in France.

After the death of Edward IV, the Queen Consort herself was very fearful for her sons, because of course, Edward's brothers had a history of bumping each other off.

Edward V himself was definitely aware of what was going on. He was recorded as having been extremely prayerful as his imprisonment continued.

twinsetandpearls · 05/10/2008 23:25

I may try that book oldestcat

LittlePushka · 05/10/2008 23:34

Nope, watchin Eddie Izzard now and it would be him!

Starkey's "Six Wives" is a great read if you want facts, more readable than the usual historian style of writing (really long sentences and no pith or punch..but no offence intended to any published historians out there!)

expatinscotland · 05/10/2008 23:34

i agree it's a good read! but the theory's pretty thin.

for one, it was not illegal even for genuine illegitimates to inherit, and bastardy as a legal status could be quite readily changed, as demonstrated by Henry VIII.

by the same token, too, Elizabeth of York was officially betrothed once before in the past.

TheOldestCat · 06/10/2008 21:05

Yes, expat, granted the theory is not totally convincing.

But it does make you think.

Do read it, twinset, and you can let us know what you think.

I'm going to get the Starkey book on your recommendation, littlepushka.

LittlePushka · 06/10/2008 22:27

I thought that he substantiates his sources rather well,...but I am not in any kind of sufficiently knowledgeable position to argue with him!

I am always havingto work out how old everyone is at the various pivotal moments...not sure why I need to know, but I do!

New posts on this thread. Refresh page