Jerry Springer . . . Is ENGLISH by birth?! Who Do You Think You Are?

[expatinscotland]

OMG!

I had NO idea.

He was born in London, the son of two German Jewish refugees.

assumed the Abraham / Adam thing was just an emotional eror, tbh, although ~i have heard Abraham decribed as the father of Judaism, Adam being te father of all iyswm

I watched this last night on BBC iplayer and thought it was enthralling, as well as very disturbing. I agree that the discovery of a whole side of the family he'd never known existed was a really important and optimistic way to conclude the programme. Otherwise it would have been very, very grim.

I also felt JS came across so well, as such a normal guy, with absolutely no vanity or self promotion, unlike other people in WDYTYA.

DH an I watched this last week. We were captivated and saddened. Since then DH has heard lots of people talking about it (on trains etc) and one of things that is so frustrating is that SO MANY people havent a clue what WW2 was really about. This is such a momentous part of our history and yet people switch off at school/on tv etc.

I have not spotted thinking about this program since I saw it.

Programs about the holocaust are usually poignant but this one seemed different because it was so personal and because it was odd to see JS in a different context.

Things that did surprise me were:

1. his ignorance -the fact that he had not hear of Lodz or Terezin. I expect jews to be better informed than other people but perhaps as the child of holocaust survivors he has shied away from finding out more.

1. the quality of the records - I was amazed that they were able to pinpoint where his grandmothers were deported to and when they died. It has made me wonder what proportion of the 6 million they can name.

I meant not stopped

malfoy, one of the things social historians often comment on about Nazi practices were how thorough and detailed they were. In this respect, this holocaust was utterly modern (in comparison to other genocides) in that it was fully documented, rationalised and manufactured using all the technologies at their disposal in the mid 20th century.

Some have also argued it is this 'rationalization' of the process that allowed so many officers and locals to 'distance' themselves from the reality of the process.

I thought a lot of the records had been destroyed as the russians approached.

My DH reckons approx. 60% can be named, ie those that will have gone to camps. The ones who were just rounded up & shot in forests in the countryside not so much.

Also the jews in bigger towns will have been more likely to have family abroad who could "miss" and name them.

But records could be accessable from many places and that is where the Nazis were able to find out who was jewish and whether the parents or granparents were jewish by going through birth and marriage records and so on (bear in mind they classified people by whether they were half jewish qaurter jewish or whole jewish and so on). Generally those killed via the death camps were documented. Those shot elsewhere like the woods etc as I say it would be possible to make a rough estimate of who they were by the records as mentioned. But generally most jews gypsies and so on were sent to Ghettos and camps and moved on from there. It was a more efficient way of mass killing people.

Hmmmm, funny how I did not have the same sympathy for Esther Ranzthen last night!

Hi again BGD! yes, I agree re ER.

Warsaw looked v grim though.

What a tragedy Warsaw was. Have you seen the film or read the book The Pianist? It is a brilliant harrowing read. There are some good books on the Warsaw uprising as well worth reading. It is all very sad though. They were truly evil people the Germans/Nazis at that time.
Strangely enough on BBC2 at the same time was God on Trial a play where Jews in a concentration camp were putting God on trial for letting the Jews suffer their fate. One Jewish guy did a fantastic speech about how the Germans deliberately and systematically dehumanised the Jews and the like by putting them in squalor, taking their possessions away from them and so on, making them appear subhuman deliberately so that when it came to extermminating the Jews it would be easier for the Germans to carry out since they would not see them as ordinary people but vermin who needed wiping out to make the world a better place. It was very well written.

No to The Pianist. I have Mila 18 (can't remember who wrote it) which I haven't read either.

Was thinking I should watch Shoah again (Claude Lanzmann?) but then worry that I have this "sick" interest.

We don't really watch Holocaust things at home. DH is uncomfortable about it. None of his family were affected (either sephardi or long established in UK) and he did go on a Holocaust trip at university.

sorry. making little sense.

I was on holiday when this (hte Jerry Springer one) was on.

Does anyone know if/when it will be repeated? What is BBC iplayer that I've seen someone mention?

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00d7rl1/

It's not a sick interest, I think it is important to remind people that this is what can happen. And that is what I do. I have been to Auschwitz and it was very disturbing but I would go again. Equally when I went to the war graves in Normandy I felt that those soldiers did die for a good cause, it wasn't in vain. To an extent I found that comforting when I saw those graves.

I don't know. It's like I enjoy upsetting myself, like people who read "mis lit" (A Child called it, etc).

I also want to go to the war graves in Normandy -again DH very reluctant. I do agree that it is also about respect.

Thank you malfoy.

BGD, I caught the 20 minutes or so of teh play. Even that short bit was very moving.

I think I will be going back to Normandy next april/may time with a few friends to visit the cemetaries and museums and get a guided tour of the battlefield if we can.
you should go Malfoy, the museum at Caan is superb as is the American cemetary at Collville sur mer. The French gave the land to the Americans after the war as a thank you for the liberation and all the crosses are facing America. (approx 11,000 graves)
I took Mrs BGD there last year who found the whole thing moving and impressive. We went on the 7th June which was the day after the anniversary of the D day landings and there were still quite a few veteran soldiers about who paid their respects. It was lovely to get to be able to speak to them and listen to their story. These people will not be around for ever.

On the subject, if anyone is ever in Ieper then the In Flanders Field museum is a must. Really amazing and sobering place. There is one exhibit that flashes up pictures of the battlescenes, then the number of dead and then, in quick, blink-fast flashes a photograph of each aoldier. Suddenly the numbers don't seem to be simply that and the whole thing becomes very, uncomfortably real.

I feel like that whenever I see photos of the soldiers before battle though.

Plus to hear the last post played every night at the Menin gates at Ieper.

Just the sheer size of the Menin gates, and to know those are the names of the ones they didn't find, it is truly humbling.

ok! message received and understood. will put pressure on DH to go.

was going to wait until DCs were studying WW1/WW2 but as they are only 4 and 2 this will be a while.