The Quran, Channel 4, 8pm: anyone going to watch?

[policywonk]

Heard this guy (he also made Death of a Princess) interviewed on the radio last week. He sounds really interesting.

Also, did you know that there's a theory that Islam grew out of a dissident Christian sect?

Cote - I think you are more articulate than me about all this...

Thank you. What about the view that people's needs should be met collectively, as a matter of justice? Whats the view on taxation/welfare state?

Oooh....I really feel you need someone more educated in Islam than me to answer this... Fwiw though, I would assume that the welfare state would be born out of the charity isywim? Whereby those who didn't have the means to pay for things would be helped by charitable organisations. Interest is forbidden in Islam so there would be no exorbitant mortages - you just pay for what you borrow, the same for loans as well. Not sure how that would function in today's society though.

What do you mean about people's needs being met? I.e the needs of the poor or???

The Sunnah is the way or deeds of Muhammad and validated by the consensus of companions of Muhammad (Sahaba) in Sunni Islam, and the way or deeds of Muhammad and the twelve Imams in Shi'a Islam, while Hadith is a collection of the narrations and approvals.

Hadiths are classified according their status, in relation to their texts (matn) and their chain of transmitters (isnad).

Sunnah, on the other hand, is established through the practical examples and not via these texts in Islamic law, but mostly through the hadith texts as far as prophetic biography, traits and examples are concerned. For example, prayers, both individual and congregatory, were taught by Muhammad to his followers by practical example and since then have been transmitted generation-to-generation through practical learning. On the other hand, many traits about Muhammad, such as his style, his habits and his dealings with others, is known primarily through hadith.

I copied all of the above from here because I am lazy. What it says is correct, though.

So even if we believe Mohammad said anything positive about FGM (which is doubtful) it would be a hadith, because it would be just a comment he said. He did not teach it to others through practice, since none of his wives or daughters suffered FGM, therefore it is not sunna.

[I grew up in a Muslim country, which is why I am familiar with all this. It's not my belief, though.]

zakat is almost a tax system in some ways, a percentage of your wealth is given as charity

people can apply to receive zakat (in reality in the west this happens less as people tend to send money abroad to poorer people) and the money is distributed to the students, widows etc.

As regard to welfare state, there are hadeeths stating that you shouldnt let your neighbbour go hungry if there is food in your house so there is an idea of community responsibility, although there is another hadeeth that illustrated it is better to go and do menial work (collect wood suitable as firewood and sell it) than to beg

I just realized Puss said it clearer:

"Hadith is the sayings of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) and the Sunnah is the life/deeds of the Prophet"

As such, FGM cannot be sunnah, since no female blood relative nor wife of Mohammad was ever circumcised.

If that quote of him speaking favorably about FGM is correct, then it would be hadith.

Thanks Cote. I'm in no position to argue the theology/terminology at all.

But just to show that you can find anything on the internet, here's some crazy person saying that fgm is sunnah.

I promise to shut up about it now though.

So if people give zakat, would that be the full extent of their charitable giving? I spoke to a taxi driver once who told me that people tend to go and give Zakat in person, as they felt more confident it would reach the people who needed it, but this struck me as inefficient? is that common practice?

I could set up a page on the internet and sanaction fgm on it(I DON'T!)...my point is, that this is just one person giving a reply - what are his credentials? What hadith (if any!!) is he basing his reply on? Is the hadith supported etc etc - sadly, anyone can have a fancy scholarly type name and ponce on about stuff on the net...

Lentil - hard to say if its common practice. I deal with reputable charities so I'm as confident as a I can be that my money will go to the right sources but I should imagine in some 3rd world countries where sadly, corruption is rife, people would prefer to give it in person. If you put your faith in a charitable organisation, the onus is on the charity to distribute the money Islamically and to causes that are in need of aid.

Money is not the full extent of charity- it goes far beyond just sharing your wealth. Its many other things too...for example when in the Middle East a while back, I saw an old lady struggling to cross the road. I took her arm and helped her over (the roads are mad over there!!)-that counts as charity too isywim? A friend of mine had a baby a while back and we had a gathering to celebrate the baby where she provided the food -thats a form of charity and being thankful to God for the blessing of a child.

Does that help?

thanks

Right, I'm off to pray and then go to bed..amazing how I can sit happily on mnet for hours but find it an effort to haul my arse and pray and it only takes 5 mins...

Night all!

I think quite a lot of Islam is about creating a cohesive society, and zakaat is only part of it.

Praying together in mosque is to be preferred over doing it alone in your home (Salah). You are to visit Mecca and join the thousands of other Muslims doing the rounds around the Kaaba (Hajj). You are to share your wealth with the poor in your community (Zakaat).

The concept of 'ummah' in Islam is fascinating. All Muslims scattered around the world being part of a single community.

Thanks policywonk - off to the library this afternoon!