Primark: On the Rack - 9pm BBC1 - NOW

[SNoraWotzThat]

Panorama investigation shows child labour was being used to finish clothes.

bump

yep I am taping it for school.

Oh Lucycat, can you copy it for me

I teach A level Product design (textiles) We have to teach ethical/moral issues like this.

Dp was going to mend dvd recorder 6 months ago.....

I can't belive that Primark ended the contracts instead of sorting out their manufacture problem.

The main factory was clearly not able to produce the high volume in the short turnaround Primark required. Surely Primark product buyers could calculate this impossible task.
Then to stop using the factory and probably place the order somewhere else, under the same mass requirements, is not resolving the issues.

fizzbuzz and lucycat, I think it's great idea that you are showing it to your students.

but they dont reckon we shoudl boycott them, what should we do then?

Buy less, think more, make things last.
Don't buy anything with sequins on!

I don't know TBH. But maybe only buy what you need, not what you want.

I'm not showing it....I couldn't copy it....

I haven't copied it.
Does the BBC website say when it is on again?
Could someone copy it for you?

I'll see what I can do at school re copying it for you - you can get it on iplayer for 30 days if you download it and Panorama are pretty good at putting their programmes online as well - I use lots of them.

Hmm might try that then Thanks

watched it last night on iplayer

i am prob going to burn in flames for this but here goes:
the children as young as 9 doing the sewing were filmed 3 mths ago sewing indian fabic which says to me that if they dont sew primark/gap clothes they wont be aloud out to play and be children anyway as the adults will find them something else to sew.
they get 54p a day to sew 3 items which may feed their family for the day
i know its wrong (child labour)but i think primark pulling out will do no good to the children and their familys

exaclty, it was so wrong about primark pulling out altogether - i know the children earn money but would you like your 9 year dd doing that all day?
what about the parents doing it instead, don't understand

prob all the family are working
3 quaters of the people in the village worked in textiles

But surely we as consumers can do something about it, by not buying stuff from Primark etc., and forcing unethical practices like child labour to stop?

The slave trade was defended roundly by most people in Wilberforce's day because thr entire British economy relied on it. It took a massive combined effort of will and moral persuasion to change people's thinking nad ultimately the law.

So yes you're right to say "If those children are not working for Primark they'll be working for Walamrt or whoever" but really, isn't that just the same as someone 200 yrs ago saying "If that African isn't working on Mr X's plantation then he'd just be working down the road on Mr Y's"? Well yes - but the whole thing is wrong and has to change! (IMHO - I'm feeling beligerent today)

54p a day is a pittance even in india. It will buy a bag of rice only. People think that things cost so much less but ordinary goods like shampoo, deodorant are not much cheaper than here.

During the slave years people would have argued that people would starve without it. Well 54p a day is slave wages just enough to eat.

I'm afraid boycotting would be no good, unless you wanted to boycott every high street store? Just because Primark are the cheapest it does not mean that they are the most unethical. As I have mentioned on another thread, I have visited garment factories in India and China and whilst I have never seen children working there myself (except on school holidays and these were children of about 13/14 years old) 95% of handwork is outsourced to homes so it is impossible to trace who is doing it. I have been to factories sewing together products for tesco, primark, french connection amongst others, they are all made in the same way and if there is beading to be done they would be sent out to the same homes. it takes such a long time to hand sew these garments that very few factories can afford the space or money to employ people to do this so it is often sent to outworkers.

In regards to the analogy with the slave trade, in reality it is rarely factory owners who are forcing children to sew but rather families who get big sacks of clothes to bead and get everyone helping to earn more money. So for that reason, it is not slavery, just extremely poor parents roping in everyone to help to get more pittance and so could not be "stamped out" unless the government there had some kind of social welfare system in place to ensure the children were being schooled. Generally the families that do this kind of work are even below the caste system, have no right to vote and are considered the lowest of the low in India. If their children were not doing this they would not be going to school, they would be begging, prosituting, stealing.

It is in my opinion for the international community to put pressure on the Indian government to improve living conditions and schooling for these workers so that they can afford to school their children and that the authorities ensure that they go. India is growing at a spectacular rate and the benfits from this needs to be passed down.

Surely it's not rocket science for a well paid Primark Buyer to acknowledge that the factories could not produce the quantities they required in the turnaround time they insisted on. They say they play by the rules and guidelines, but they don't actually pay enough for a whole team nor allow enough time to play the second half to get the results!

"How can it be so cheap?" Well someone's doing it for nothing.

They should have helped - not pulled out, leaving more people less well off and unable to get decent work of any kind.

Angry bump!

jojosmaman as someone who has some knowledge, what do you suggest would be a way forward for the 'person on the street' to be able to make a difference?

Boycott Primark (and all the other cheap shops) - go to Oxfam instead!

Bramshott I am with you on that, I would rather not buy anything at all at the moment.

However to Boycott does not resolve the desire to shop, simply transfers the problem somewhere else.

i watched it too, wotz, and it was very powerful.

following you around - posted over there>>

Of course there is no way of knowing who made that t shirt you are buying, it may cost £30 by a designer of £3 at Primark. But it's not difficult to rule out that the £30 t has been produced in a reasonable working environment by adults and the primark one in the most distressing conditions. It is Primark that has been singled out although I'd be interested to find out which other cheap shops just don't care or check these isoooohs. I can guess but don't wish to libel.

I wish I knew Snora. I work in importing so in some ways I am party to the problem as I push my factories for better prices as we are being pushed by our customers for better prices or we lose the business. They don't ask how the beading is done, they have half hearted attempts at following ETI's standards and like Primark will have literature stating they are members of the Ethical Trading Initiative but in the many years we have been dealing with these customers we have not had any factory visits from them, they rely on independant audits which are open to bribary, from what i have learnt.

The difficulty is that there is always someone who will not be bothered about ethics and will buy the cheapest available. Or consumers will abandon cheap goods for a few months and then when the hoohaa wears off they will slowly but surely start buying cheap again. Another part of the problem is the ludicrous seasons we have in the UK mean that the turnaround on garments needs to be extremely quick or otherwise you get the stock in just before you go in to seasonal sale in June (should be end August) or November (should be end January). This puts huge pressure on the factories to get orders finished and shipped through fear of cancellation and so they resort to outwork and push their outworkers.

And just want to stress again, a £3 top could quite well have been made in the same factory as a £30 one, its just that the £30 may have a higher mark up! We have sold garments to one company for £4.95/pc which have been retailed at £9.95 but at £29.95 by another- no difference in garment quality or factory, just the mark ups. I am not saying that Primark are ethical more that most other high street stores will be knowingly/ unknowingly/ turning a blind eye to unethical standards.

I think if you really want to buy safely in the knowledge that the garment you are purchasing is not made by children then check the labels, if it is made in Italy than you are probably ok but in India? I doubt it. Not that this will make a difference to the bigger problem but it may ease your own conscience.