Michael Jackson - The Trial Channel 4

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Anyone watching this? Second part was this evening but Im watching the others now

Interesting that so far theres no medical views about what was wrong with Jackson emotionally, strikes me that he must have been PD?

I am. Halfway through part 2.
Think Jackson’s medical staff probably wouldn’t want to appear given everything that they too have been accused of. But with 2 episodes to go there’s still time…

Im watching part 2 atm....so far ive not seen anything thats changed my opinion of him....

You mean for better or worse?

I dont think I knew as much detail as that. I hadnt seen pictures of his house, that said a lot about his mental state

I then watched Leaving Neverland which I hadnt seen and didnt know as much detail of either. Those poor boys.

Ive watched leaving neverland and i remember the Martin Bashir programme when it originally aired. (Although I've know MB has been largely discredited)
But ive never understood how or why people seemingly explain away the sleepovers/hanging out with kids, by saying he was "like a kid. If anyone else - as a 40 something year old man - was described as being like a kid, you wouldnt excuse or allow that sort of behaviour. There would likely be some level of safe guarding to protect both parties, children and child-like adult

I’m always astounded by the parents allowing all the contact - I know mine would have allowed it for a day and then said “right back to real life now that’s enough, you can’t do that forever”

I did notice when he was sitting next to a child speaking he looked so childlike - just like a child would be when their friend of the same age were talking about you - like goofy and embarrassed

What I found difficult to understand and it wasnt asked or explained, what was going on with jobs, school, other friends. How do people just 'stay for months' somewhere.

How did the Australian family just up and leave Australia to move to America, on what visa, with what money?

I know thats not really the issue but it puzzled me (that was from Leaving Neverland)

I think its right to say he probably was childlike and like a child in many ways, a massive gap in his emotional development due to his own childhood but of course he had adult urges and needs which then made him a dangerous predator

He was classic textbook, all the stories about what not to say to their parents, grooming the whole family as well as the child.

I wonder if he took care of all the money - job - house stuff

I’m so aghast parents let their kids sleep in his room while they slept down the corridor 😱

I feel sad that the kids got replaced as they grew into men - for obvious reasons

I think too many people are relying on the money from his legacy for him ever to be subject to an inquiry like Saville

Agree about your last sentence

And your first - the american mum (mother of the one who isnt Wade, cant remember) did admit that he bought them a house, but that was after the first allegations by Chandler, he had loaned them money to buy a house but then removed the debt so they got a free house.

James.schuttle something

the great moon dancer

James safechuck!

Yes I find this intriguing how did he (and his people - pre social media) seek out potential "victims" and then start the grooming process - for whole families. That in itself is weird, and like you say, what about the parents jobs, kids schools etc.

I felt so badly for Gavin Arvizo (who obviously now has a new identity) that he was a lone accuser against a multi millionaire popstar, (with a whole team of lawyers at his disposal) and then years later discovers the other witnesses were also abused.
However, even though he said during the trial, that he wasnt abused, the fact that Wade admitted that he and MJ had shared a bed multiple times since he was a young child, in itself, is disturbing. I have a (now teenage ) son, the thought of him having a sleepover with any adult male friends (or female tbh, if they were sharing a bed) no matter how much we knew and trusted them would just ring alarm bells.

Any adult seeking or saying they want to be 'friends' with kids Im afraid are not right. They nearly are always in appropriate, the men who are like that are nearly always sexual abusers and the women are nearly always seeking them for men or seeking them for emotional abuse.

All that business about him just hanging out, watching movies, giggling, eating snacks blah blah blah. Honestly what a load of shite.

And the state of him as well.

A bit like Jimmy Saville in that what you saw was what he was, creepy strange weird.

Yes Its why I often judge a book by its cover and Im normally right!!!

I watched the 2nd part this week too but missed the 1st part. It was pretty convincing evidence against him. But, after watching the first Finding Neverland when that came out, I was pretty shocked at how much MJ was defended by fans and the abuse the boys/men who came forward got.
I feel like the reaction will be similar. Also I feel like the parents were groomed as much as the boys, which people don’t seem to understand.

I didnt know Gavin Arvizo has a new identity now. I feel for all the victims, especially knowing that they may never get justice. Although I appreciate MJ was an amazing artist, it’s so difficult for me to hear his music now.

I feel ill whenever I hear his music. I don’t know how anyone could listen to it now .

I've watched all the episodes and the other documentaries (Finding and Leaving Neverland).

My main issue is with the very complicated security system he had in place leading up to his bedroom door. If he was so innocent, why would he need all those bells and combination lock on the door to warn him someone was coming down the corridor?!?

I think MJ was without a doubt a very talented singer and dancer and deserved his title as the King of Pop.

But I also think his upbringing at the hands of a cruel father like Joe, led to him developing some kind of mental disorder which stemmed from being emotionally stunted and wanting to rescue the inner child within him (that no other adults around him at the time, even his mum Katherine, managed to do).

I've watched them all now and it's astounding, even with the lawyers he had, that enough jurors found in his favour. The fact that he had a briefcase full of pornographic magazines which Gavin Arvizo had been shown and books with children wearing nothing but underwear - which the police officer said was typical of abuser behaviour - and the testimony of one of the mothers who said Jackson had asked her if her son could sleep in his room should have rung alarm bells.
The fans outside the court room, whether shipped in or not, should not have been allowed to congregate so close and he should have been driven in and out by police officers not his own drivers.
He'd obviously thrown money at Robson and Safechuck so they denied it at the trial. I felt so sorry for Arvizo, the courage he had as a boy to stand there and testify against the "king of pop".

Exactly, no one would trust any old bloke the same age.
And then his family said it was all racially motivated. They should be ashamed of themselves, LaToya was the only one who saw him for what he was.
It's clear he was abused as a child, but when we're adults we have the ability to choose and sexually assaulting children is not a way of making them happier than he was.

Latoya back tracked in later years though, none of his family have truly spoken out

Yes I was a bit confused about Latoya because it showed her publicly speaking out against him, but then later on, they said she was riding alongside MJ in his motorcade on his way to court!!!

Also, had never heard of the other Australian boy Brett something or other.

I still reckon Macauley Culkin was also a victim, even though he denies it to this very day 🤔

Yes im pretty sure, in the latest series, the (arrogant AF) lawyer said that Latoya was in the car , praying for him

I found it interesting (i think it was part 3) that was about "controlling the story" or controlling the narrative where they kept tabs on the entire Arvizo family, for weeks, to prevent them talking to the press. Like everyone basically knew what hed done ...and had essentially outed himself on the MB documentary, but just needed to stop the family from saying anything. I think it would be a lot different now in the age of social media they would have many more outlets to have their say.

Without a doubt Culkin was a victim. Poor thing.

Also, what happened with all the medical evidence that was collected including details about MJ's genitalia?!? All the boys described it accurately from what I remember in other programmes. So, did that not get brought up in court?

The parents were groomed too 😔

I don't believe Culkin was a victim. Jackson went after families that didn't have money.

mmm..watch out for that!