Michael Jackson - The Trial Channel 4

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Anyone watching this? Second part was this evening but Im watching the others now

Interesting that so far theres no medical views about what was wrong with Jackson emotionally, strikes me that he must have been PD?

I thought I remembered that it was brought up

Simply, the jury didnt believe, want to believe, didnt care

Look at that attitude of the juror saying 'dont click your fingers at me lady' and everyone laughing

Fucking moron.

Having now watched some of Leaving Neverland I'm almost lost for words.
How many people did Jackson have working for him, he seemed to have been surrounded constantly, how come one of those people didn't go to the police, just one. Did they talk to each other about it, were those who questioned hushed up or sacked?
Which sane parents think it's ok for an adult to have their child in their bedroom on their own, never mind during the day at night as well. I'm not blaming the parents for the abuse, it was Jackson who committed that, but I can't get my head around parents allowing their 7 and 10 year old kids to spend the night in a other adults bedroom.
And this went on for years

Even considering that, who lets their 7 or 10 year old child sleep in the same room with an adult and especially an adult male. I mean, statistics and all that.

He pulled the wool over a lot of people's eyes. The fake childlike persona for a start.

In the Rabbi Shmuli tape,he said if he was never around children again he would kill himself. But it wasn't girls,just boys the majority of the time. Why was that?

And why the locks and alarms to his bedroom!

The maid said she was basically threatened.
And she was given money (iirc $300) which - considering it was MJ - seems particularly stingy.

But yes a lot of people must have had a sense of what was going on. Kids staying in his room - and their families in another building...? Lots of must have known that, drivers, security, household staff etc. The fact that one of the episodes was based around controlling the story....rather than setting the story straight ....

I would imagine that its somewhat cult like working for someone like that, despite his issues with his family, father in particular, they were extremely tight knit, dad involved all the way

I suspect that any sniff of 'my god, he had kids in his room' sort of gossip on the grounds or in the kitchen or at shows with staff talking would be fed back and that person would be quietly let go, probably not even putting two and two together that it was that comment or their raised eyebrow or their query that caused them to be moved on.

I was really surprised at even now the Rabbi and the other bloke who I forget the name of (was he the photographer or videographer?) didnt believe it was true. The photographer bloke actually asked 'do you think he's guilty then', in a sort of incredulous tone.

The lawyer I dont pay any attention to at all, lawyers never give away their true thoughts about their client, they have to hold the line so dont know whether he believed it or not.

Yes that (alarms) was very telling too. The amount of support he has astounds me, it's like people have blinkers on.

"Supporters" can often fall into one of two camps. Those who just refuse to consider anything other than "it can't possibly true", who ignore the evidence or who just refuse to think about it deeply, because they are biased or in denial in some way (superfan, or family).

And in the other camp are those who who have something to gain, or lose, by sticking by the accused in some way. Perhaps the accused person actually has something on those individuals that could spell trouble for them, hence they give their support publicly to keep themselves out of hot water. Perhaps the person apparently supporting them is only doing it under duress.

What I would want anyone to ask themselves, is why did none of MJ's advisors, PAs, managers, and closest associates, who were paid to make sure he stayed out of trouble and continued being successful , why did none of them advise him all along that associating with young boys (and it's noticeable that it's not children of both genders, it's mainly boys) in the way that he did, having them to stay overnight in his room, separating them from their parents, was not a good idea. WHY did they not tell him, repeatedly, not to do it? Why did they not advise him to seek psychological help for the emotional development issues that he clearly had?

Why was everyone who worked at Neverland, and around MJ, including himself, not made to do any safeguarding training, when so many kids were coming and going, running around freely, not always under the eye of their parents? Why did MJ himself not insist on it, so that he could at least say that all his employees had been trained/vetted, and had full safeguarding training, including himself, and there were safe to be supervising children without chaperones.

If he'd had decent safeguarding/child protection awareness he would have known that being alone around a child so often and sleeping in the same bed is a total no-no for an adult who is not their parent, and not doing so protects both the child and the adult (in case of false allegations). Perhaps he wouldn't have done it. But maybe he was fully aware that if he HAD done any kind of safeguarding training, that would immediately exclude any potential for claiming that his behaviour was all part of this innocent, naiive childlike persona he displayed. He then wouldn't be able to claim that he didn't realise he shouldn't be doing it.

Creepy and grooming, gave me the absolute shivers.

Who exactly was in a position to make MJ do safeguarding training? He was a multi millionaire and all this stuff happened at his private house. His staff were employed by him and controlled by him. He was free to do exactly as he wished . Staff were paid off and hushed up if they tried to raise objections, I have no doubt. His victims were from poor families who were desperate to use their connection to him. Shades of Epstein.

I'm really confused after watching that documentary.
I've watched leaving Neverland and was definitely in the 'mj is a pedo' camp.

But after watching this, I'm so confused. Why did those 2 witnesses lie in court? Surely when something like this happens, it gives victims more courage to speak out. Sure they may have not wanted to testify in court against their perpetrator. They could have chosen to not get involved but then to support him is just mind blowing! Were they benefitting from MJ at that point - is that why they lied for him? I need to look into this more.

Also, with the number of children he had access to, id have thought alot more victims would have come out of the woodwork by now as it looks like he had a conveyor belt of potential victims.

Does anyone know whether MJ underwent an assessment with a psychiatrist as part of the trial? This would be very interesting.

I think they were probably still in denial that it was abuse, had been paid off, threatened or scared of what would happen to them and their families if they spoke the truth. Any of those would have been enough, but it was likely more than one thing!

Also, I think MJ was far too clever a manipulator to not be selective about which children he chose to abuse.

His child like squeaky voice was all an act. Everything was an act. Those poor children.

Just coming back to this as Ive been watching An American Tragedy on BBC

Im wondering if Jackson was personality disordered?

I binge watched all the episodes the other day. I think MJ had some serious trauma at the hands of his abusive father and had developed a severe dependency on addictive pain killers following his hair catching fire during the Pepsi ad filming. That was the start of his downfall.

But yes, I think he likely did suffer from some form of mental illness as well. Depression, delusions of grandeur, God complex - the possibilities are many!

The parameters for safeguarding have changed over time. Then people would have thought it was nice that the star, MJ would want to spend time with a child and their family, including overnight. Today, the red flag claxon would be sounding straight away. That’s why so much abuse occurred in the past. Not saying it was right what he did, and I’m another person who can’t quite understand stand why people still revere his music and it’s still played on the radio, in light of the allegations. (Scott Mills got sacked for one allegation, also not proved guilty).

Certainly delusions of grandeur.

We are so much more aware now. It doesn’t excuse what those parents did but I think they were all in awe of MJ and of course of his money. I am amazed that he is still played on the radio. I know he was not found guilty etc but looking through today’s lenses, the BBC would not be wanting to associate but they continue to play him on the radio. I always switch off.

Its an interesting concept as to whether someone really powerful has delusions of grandeur or not, or whether they are just acting the way they are because they are that powerful. Because its no a delusion of grandeur is it, they are grandeur (not sure how to say that or describe it)

Yes. MJ was grand, the King of Pop indeed. But if he wouldn't have had so many yes people around him, perhaps he could have stayed more grounded and the power and fame wouldn't have gone to his head so much?

At the end of the day, he just wanted to be loved unconditionally. Something that was lacking from his father. He tried to fill this void by having adoring children around him all the time, as they asked for nothing/little in return.

That along with the fact that he was a self-proclaimed perfectionist, can't have made for a balanced mental state.

A lot of child stars grow up to have issues in later life. Often drug addictions. It can't have been easy shooting to superstardom with the constant pressure and weight of expectations on your shoulders.

Grand I guess ?

Another MJ series is on BBC iplayer this week (3 parts)
Some of the contributors are the same.
His spiritual advisor (also prominent in the channel 4 doc) says that the Martin Bashir documentary was instrumental in his death, and his manager said it came out really badly and Michael was v upset about it. I know Martin Bashir has been discredited/cancelled but there was a lot that is literally straight from MJ himself. There was footage of him, behaving in a bizarre and totally erratic way trying to bottle feed his baby, while jiggling him on his knee and covering his face in a scarf. I mean fair enough if you dont want them in the public eye...but literally ask for the baby not to be filmed or keep them from the cameras. Then all the BS about how lovely and innocent the sleepovers were...
Im yet to watch part 3 ....