Wolf Hall - The Mirror and the Light

[virgocatlover]

Series 2 is confirmed to start Sunday 10th November.

Almost 10 years after the first series, I'm excited to see the third and final novel brought to life.

Yes, I might have to start watching it during the day and watch something less intense at 9!

I watched Tudors, as well as Henry VIII and his Six Wives and its follow up, Elizabeth R with the brilliant Glenda Jackson. As you say, stagey but sublime.

I watched Episode 2 last night. Things are starting to ramp up, aren't they? Such a dangerous time, when an accusation of treason could be easily fabricated. I have googled the fate of Jane Seymour (obviously I learnt all about his wives at school, but that was a long time ago. And there were eight of them after all). Anyone else think it unlikely that Jane would be discussing her sex life with Cromwell?

no. six

Did Rick Wakeman die in vain?

You're quite right. He 'only' had six wives. Like I say, school was a long time ago.

I hope not, he looked quite chipper when my friend met him on Monday!

Saw the second episode last night. Excellent. But Damian Lewis is still far more handsome and desirable than I think the real Henry was at this stage, even with his gaudy Cosprop Turkish extravaganza.

It was interesting to see Cromwell's teary meltdown after his conversation with Dorothea. I saw it as that he felt such guilt over what had happened to Wolsey and had convinced himself that marrying/supporting her would assuage that increasingly all-consuming guilt. He couldn't cope with her refusal and confirmation of his perceived culpability. I think the final episode will be a difficult watch.

I don't know if anyone has watched any of the short interview programmes on iplayer (only 15 mins each) where various creators and actors look back at programmes they've made or appeared in?

( eg Jed Mercurio & Martin Compston on Line of Duty, Philip Glenister & Matthew Graham on Life of Mars) .

The one on Peter Kosminsky talking about how they filmed Wolf Hall S1,how he came to direct it ( he was a documentary director not a drama one ), his relationship with Hilary Mantel, the challenges of abridging the books, plus looking ahead to S2 is really interesting. Worth a look.

Also read an interview with him recently where he said that the Cromwell crying scene at the end of S2 Ep2 is the pivotal scene of this series. So it will be interesting to see how and where it goes next.

I do.
I don’t think they were as prudish as now.
When Anne of Cleaves declared Henry kissed her at night and then in the morning maybe thinking that’s how you get pregnant she was told in graphic terms ( not by Cromwell though ) that they needed to do more.
That Henry needed to put his member inside her and wiggle it about.

I don't know if it's still on Sounds, but Mantel did 3 excellent Reith lectures on writing historic fiction.
I had another go at Bring up the Bodies yesterday, but still find it unreadable. But it's probably me.
FWIW, from the TV series, I got the idea that Cromwell proposes to Dorothea at least partly in desperation, as word has got out that he intends to marry Mary (Henry's daughter). Marrying Dorothea is his way out of this pickle.

FWIW, from the TV series, I got the idea that Cromwell proposes to Dorothea at least partly in desperation, as word has got out that he intends to marry Mary (Henry's daughter). Marrying Dorothea is his way out of this pickle.

I thought that too.

We've just rewatched series one and started series 2 last night.

It's so good, yet so dark. Both DH and I said about how sinister much of it felt, especially towards the end of season 1, with the plotting against Anne Boleyn. The final scene with her made me cry, despite having seen in before. Claire Foy was tremendous. Her acting, and the whole staging with of it was excellent, if not very upsetting!

Sorry, loads of typos in my post!

They were definitely not prudish - sheet inspections for blood and semen the morning after; bedding ceremonies, etc.

I think it far more likely that she would have talked to another woman (married) not Cromwell. That scene was ridiculous:

The Tudors believed women needed to orgasm /experience pleasure in order to conceive, but I'm not sure ladies, not to mention royal ladies, would have discussed such things with men such as Cromwell. Perhaps with a physician or even a priest, but not with other men.

Agree it was ridiculous. Also doesn’t really fit with Jane’s character which was supposed to be meek and demure (and probably scared to death of putting a foot wrong)

I see that Edward Seymour is played by an actor called Will Tudor!

I've started Bring up The Bodies and I'm finding it much easier than Wolf Hall.

Mantel has consistently written Cromwell as a man whom women seem willing to take into their confidence, though.

The scene where he interviews Mary Douglas with Lady Richmond was excellent

To be fair Wolf Hall (both books and show) have never presented her this way – they’ve always shown how clever she is, and how calculating she can be when necessary. Henry underestimates her (as he does all women) and assumes she’s meek, demure and scared – but Mantel takes great pains to show us that’s not the case.

That's a good point, @peachgreen . I've read other books which support this; she was by no means weak and passive, but a clever and calculating woman, and possibly at risk had she lived longer.

I agree that Damian Lewis is still much more attractive than Henry would have been at this point, but I'm sure we're going to see him turn into more of a monster each episode. Unlike Jonathan Rhys Meyers who supposedly refused to be 'aged' and wear a fat suit in 'The Tudors'. Which was ridiculous as the Anne of Cleves and Katherine Howard storylines make no sense if Henry is still slim and handsome.

Regarding episode two, I thought they overegged the Wolsey pudding a tad. I didn't find the crying in public thing convincing or at all in character for Cromwell. I can't remember if it was int he book or not, but it just didn't seem to be me something Mantel's Cromwell would do at all.

As mother of the King's son and heir, she'd have been protected to some extent I think. Henry would likely have had other affairs, but he would not have divorced Jane because that might call the legitimacy of his precious son into question.

I agree that Mantel wrote her as a shrewd woman, clever enough to hide her ambition under a bland, meek exterior. She wasn't a beauty and had no great family connections, so she must have had something to make the King fall for her. I think her outward subservience and conventionality were a relief for Henry after the intelligent, argumentative Anne. And Jane knew it.