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Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!

989 replies

TriceratopsRocks · 06/08/2024 22:08

Ahoy again mateys! Can you believe we are now aboard thread 4? Stick around for chat about this brilliant show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more than a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back and join us 😀

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, three full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware that it's a show that needs time. It’s structured like a theatre production, with a prologue and 3 acts. The 2nd lead arrives (briefly) in episode 3. Episode 4 is the start of Act 1, where the tone changes and the main story begins. You need to give it at least 4 episodes, and from there it just gets better and better. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. And again. And again! If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might well be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5101662-our-flag-means-death-thread-3-its-still-utterly-brilliant-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=137315706

Page 38 | Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed! | Mumsnet

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

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TriceratopsRocks · 14/08/2024 00:14

MrsBruin · 13/08/2024 23:14

‘Next one goes in your effing eye. Where’s the loot?
… see, more oomph!’
or words to that effect. I also liked the teal colour!

Oh! I had totally missed the 'oomph' bit at the bottom of the label 🤦 🤣

OP posts:
TriceratopsRocks · 14/08/2024 01:36

I'm not getting much time with the show at the moment. The Olympics didn't help, but my main problem is a houseful of people and too much competition for both the TV and 'my' PC, which keeps being comandeered for gaming purposes. But tonight I finally got to continue my rewatch (it was probably the 4th time watching 2.5 over the last 3 weeks but I haven't had chance to write anything until now). So, things I particularly enjoyed were:

  • The cat bell jingling during the apology - so cute! And look at Pete, always Blackbeard’s biggest fan, nodding his head with a vigorous ‘yes’ as Ed starts speaking.
  • Ed's reaction to Stede's captain voice - always a favourite! Stede knows now how Ed feels about him - how does he not see the effect he has???
  • The boat with Fang - Ed's hair is so beautiful. However I have to question whether sitting quietly with himself is what Ed needs. Isn't spending too much time isolated, alone with his thoughts, part of what caused Ed’s problems in the first place?
  • Ed playing “cannonball”. Love it! When has Ed ever had time to just ‘play’ before now? I’m not sure I count ‘knife parade’!
  • “They must really be into geometry” 😂Love Pete's one liners, and his growth from 1.1 “I should have 20 kills by now” to “does that make us horrible people?”.
  • The red suit. Oh my..! All that swishing and twirling - just how Rhys behaved when he first tried on the sample version of the suit. And I don’t blame him!
  • Izzy trying to help Lucius move on from his trauma
  • Stede's natural instincts are awesome. We first saw it right back in 1.2 when he took back a hostage from Izzy, but here with his punch and his swordplay, he is so thrilled to be succeeding at pirating! And when he compliments the crew - he instinctively knows that openly valuing people gets the best out of them.
  • YWFTW2😍Ed’s shoulder shimmy and how they gradually move towards each other before they kiss. Stede instantly stopping when Ed asks to go slow, asking to hold hands. And I love Stede's expressions throughout as he realises that he’s been hoisted by his own ‘whim prone’ petard!

The training montage. This deserves a post of its own but you’re getting it here 😀 Stede wants Izzy’s help to become a better pirate. But does he? Is Stede still doubting his adequacy and genuinely wanting Izzy to help him become more ‘pirate captainy’, or is Stede’s purpose here actually to try and bring Izzy into the crew more and give him purpose?. It might be a bit of both, even though we already know that Stede’s way of captaining is so much better than ‘traditional’ piracy. In 1.1. Jim taught Stede something useful in a positive way. Izzy’s methods are humiliating examples of the toxic masculinity that the show keeps telling us is bad. But at the end of the episode their relationship has moved from Izzy calling Stede a ‘shitty captain’ to Stede delighting at Izzy’s compliments 😘 Definitely a successful exercise.

Have pics!!!

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
OP posts:
MrsJellybee · 14/08/2024 06:45

@TriceratopsRocks thank you for 2.5. You’ve covered loads here. I love your recognition of Pete. He is so chuffed to get his cat-bell idea actioned. I think Pete’s character arc outside of Stede and Ed is one of the most interesting across both seasons.

I find Ed’s ‘cannonball’ highly emotive considering, you know, he had his head bashed in by one. I think it’s part of the healing and reframing motif. Moving on.

I agree Ed needs to talk. I don’t like his being shut down, but I do love how Fang handles him here for the most part. The foggy weather behind is obvious pathetic fallacy (ooh, it’s like doing A level again).

Just to add to the other already excellent comments…

Izzy. He still doesn’t get it. He tells Stede he finds him fascinating. Because he’s never met anyone with such a distinct lack of skill who continues to remain alive. What he means by ‘skill’ is the skills of traditional piracy and also toxic masculinity. Yet two episodes ago, Stede rescued his entire crew using chamomile tea and tea towels. Including Izzy. Whom Izzy seems to forget he tried to thank. Izzy just never gets the strengths of Stede’s Gender-nonconforming Masculinity. I don’t think he’s being obtuse, just cannot understand or see it.

Compare Ed’s sword-training methods in 1.5 to Izzy’s. Ed’s training is fun. It’s play. Izzy’s methods as said above are humiliating. I’m convinced that Stede’s asking Izzy to train him in combat is about bringing Izzy back into the fold. Or into the fold at all. Has he ever been in it? This is Stede’s Unconditional Positive Regard again. It also means the devil can’t make work for idle hands. Give Izzy a role. The line ‘Blackbeard says you made him the Captain he is today’ though is so loaded! Because Ed isn’t Captain anymore. And that’s down to what Izzy did to him. Stede knows…

I’ll try and keep this short. The Red Suit.

It’s many things, including Stede’s learning to put the crew first. But he has often put the crew first, so what lesson is Stede specifically having to learn here? The Red Suit is Ed. The suit itself is Blackbeard, all costume and glamour. But it’s cursed. It’s synonymous with the Kraken now - we keep hearing the music. Both Stede and Ed need to let Blackbeard, and all of the perceived glamour of piracy, go. Stede struggles to, but the crew mutiny - again - against Kraken Ed, and Stede finally lets the suit go. But keeps the shirt! Ed himself, the best part, the softness underneath.

So to the second YWFTW. ‘I got rid of the suit. It was cursed. But I kept the shirt’. Metaphor all the way. And we keep mourning the loss of Ed’s red silk, but it’s back! Stede’s wearing it in the form of the red silk shirt. He is covered in the softness that Ed has craved all of his life and becomes the embodiment of the lost red silk as well as mirroring who Ed really is.

The thumb-war play at the end is exactly what they need. If you look carefully at 1.9, after the beach kiss, they are holding hands and Stede’s thumb is on top of Ed’s. In 2.5, Ed’s thumb ‘wins’ and Stede tells him so. It’s a call back to 1.9. A veiled apology. It empowers Ed. This time you win. You win the game, you win life, you win me.

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
CarterBeatsTheDevil · 14/08/2024 07:58

TriceratopsRocks · 13/08/2024 21:15

Going back to fanfic, I've read a Claire Gregory one over the last couple of days that is a modern AU which she describes as a love letter not only to OFMD but to the fandom, to fic writers and readers, to artists, Tumblr users etc. Ed and Stede (and the crew) are environmentalists who have their own hyperfixation about a TV show. The main plot sort of mirrors that show, alongside their own 'friends to lovers' trope - as part of which they are also working their way through most of the Kink-tober fic prompts! It's therefore extremely explicit, but there wasn't anything I was uncomfortable with. I thought it a good long read anyway.
archiveofourown.org/works/49128244/chapters/123950062

Those are some heavy-duty tags reads avidly

MrsJellybee · 14/08/2024 08:31

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 14/08/2024 07:58

Those are some heavy-duty tags reads avidly

I’m here for the meta, obviously. 👀

TriceratopsRocks · 14/08/2024 09:19

Hehe yes there is a lot of sex in that fic! But it's done with a sense of experimentation and lots of discussion about what they are comfortable with. There are several fics I've abandoned due to disliking the sex (too much, too extreme), but in this they discuss the specifics and their boundaries beforehand, every time they try something new, so it feels ok. There is some extremely NSFW art embedded that I should warn you about, so beware if reading in public!

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TriceratopsRocks · 14/08/2024 11:17

@MrsJellybee I'm going to have to reply in bits today! I love Pete. I love both his rant to Lucius about not being seen and how Lucius lived. How he went from wanting to lead the mutiny against Stede in 1.1 for not being 'piratey' enough, to how beautifully he was able to express his love for Lucius. If you like Pete, there's a fun pre S1 fanfic you might enjoy. archiveofourown.org/works/50779378/chapters/128275720

Totally agree with your take on Izzy just not understanding that Stede's method of piracy works. Despite that Red Flag rescue. And I forgot to say how I adore bitchy Stede in this episode! Absolutely including the "captain he is today" comment which is a favourite 😁 Izzy just takes it at face value, as he does the training. He isn't seeing the layers. The whole montage itself is a subversion. The normal trope is the trainee gradually becoming better aka the Karate Kid or The Matrix or Kung Fu panda 🤣. But here there is no improvement and the 'lessons' are not only the wrong ones, but are actively harmful - not just the sucker punch harm, but the harm to Stede's version of piracy. When he tries the 'traditional' way in 2.7 he very quickly fails.

And still on the training, the comparison isn't just Ed, whose method also included a whole lot of flirting 😆 but who absolutely did teach Stede a skill that saved his life. It was also Jim and Olu in 1, teaching Stede a move he could manage without hurting him, again without insult or humiliation. Stede was able to learn from put both of those lessons and put them into practice rather well (possibly too well in the case of the stun move)!

I wanted to add a favourite Ed pic here, but it's not on my phone so I'll have to add Stede instead 😁

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
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TriceratopsRocks · 14/08/2024 11:21

Look at that second pic - see how Stede "my body just takes over" Bonnet is firing his gun before anyone else can react. Izzy is shown throughout the show as not actually being a very good pirate. But Stede - he's a great Captain.

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MrsJellybee · 14/08/2024 16:48

@TriceratopsRocks …Izzy just not understanding that Stede's method of piracy works.*
Izzy also doesn’t understand how Stede’s masculinity ‘works’. He uses effeminate terms as an insult like Jack, (‘girl’, ‘fop’ which let’s face it in Jenkins’ world means fag). He calls him a ‘ponse’ as well as an ‘imbecile’, a ‘twat’ and gives him the lovely middle name of ‘fucking’. He refers to him as a pet! Because Stede’s not a ‘proper man’ because, what,…he’s rubbish at sword-fighting? And if he’s not a proper man, he can’t be a proper pirate. DJenks is so about widening the definition of manhood.

(I have more to say, but I can’t recall what it is atm. I’ll be back 🕶️)

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
MrsJellybee · 14/08/2024 17:20

Oh, yes.

The whole montage itself is a subversion it’s just brilliant! And then Izzy gives his mentor pep-talk which is usually ‘When I was your age kiddo, I wasn’t any good either, but kept trying… and look at me now’. Or ‘You’re different. We just have to find your strengths etc.’ But no. Izzy’s pep-talk is basically ‘You’re shit, how are you not dead?’

Now if Izzy can just ponder what the answer to that question is… come on, Izzy, you can do it!… Nope, you can’t.

Bitchy Stede: ‘Learn at the feet of…’ 😆.

Marry me, Stede.

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
MrsJellybee · 14/08/2024 17:27

And Izzy is definitely not a good… anything. He can’t even catch a sandwich.

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
TeabySea · 14/08/2024 20:31

I've now watched it all. So has DH. Ditto DC.
We can add this to our other obsessions (Good Omens & BBC Ghosts).
Have had to remind teen DC that we do not quote Izzy Hands at school.

TriceratopsRocks · 14/08/2024 21:36

TeabySea · 14/08/2024 20:31

I've now watched it all. So has DH. Ditto DC.
We can add this to our other obsessions (Good Omens & BBC Ghosts).
Have had to remind teen DC that we do not quote Izzy Hands at school.

Woohoo! Hello :) and welcome to the thread. It's always wonderful to have new people to chat to about our wonderful show. I don't have many pictures on my phone, but here are a couple as a welcome present 😁

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
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TriceratopsRocks · 14/08/2024 22:26

MrsJellybee · 14/08/2024 17:20

Oh, yes.

The whole montage itself is a subversion it’s just brilliant! And then Izzy gives his mentor pep-talk which is usually ‘When I was your age kiddo, I wasn’t any good either, but kept trying… and look at me now’. Or ‘You’re different. We just have to find your strengths etc.’ But no. Izzy’s pep-talk is basically ‘You’re shit, how are you not dead?’

Now if Izzy can just ponder what the answer to that question is… come on, Izzy, you can do it!… Nope, you can’t.

Bitchy Stede: ‘Learn at the feet of…’ 😆.

Marry me, Stede.

Noooo!! Stede is mine I tell you!! In my dreams at any rate 😄 Except I'm sort of fancying Ed at the moment. So perhaps we can share 😁😁😁.

I'm afraid I can't reply intelligently to your posts tonight but I'm always happy to appreciate Stede and Ed.

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TeabySea · 14/08/2024 23:01

I shall be working on my Lucius sass

MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 05:58

TeabySea · 14/08/2024 23:01

I shall be working on my Lucius sass

I know everyone loves ‘Have you ever been sketched?’ which is such a killer line in 1.5. But the delivery of ‘It’s not a care-package’ in 1.8 is ~chef’s kiss~ Everyone needs a Lucius in their life.

@TeabySea I love BBC Ghosts too. It’s partly what led me to our Pirate Show. I mean, it’s amazing on so many levels. And then Ben Willbond…

MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 06:25

@TriceratopsRocks

Long night?

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
TriceratopsRocks · 15/08/2024 07:18

MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 06:25

@TriceratopsRocks

Long night?

Oh I was thinking of that scene earlier, because of the mention of Lucius. "Long night?" The telescope scene is one of my absolute favourites. I must watch it now...

Oh it's so good. Poor Stede! I want to give him a big hug, but he only has eyes for Ed. sigh. Not that I blame him 🤣 And we talk about oblivious Stede in S1, but he's definitely not completely oblivious, even if he doesn't yet understand what it is he's feeling. And poor Ed, without his yummy lavender soap! But that meant I also got to watch "He's my friend", "Better alive than dead" and "You came back" "Never left".

Oh this show is so good! I adore it. You may have noticed 🤣.

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TriceratopsRocks · 15/08/2024 07:20

MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 06:25

@TriceratopsRocks

Long night?

Oh, not that long. Ed and Stede (helped along by Clare Gregory) kept me company for a good while... 😁

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MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 07:24

@TriceratopsRocks i’m loving the Claire Gregory you recommended. I’m even more thrilled that Rupert is played by Johnny Flynn! Who before I discovered gay pirates was another one of my hyper-fixations. Dearest Johnny, I have neglected you! And here you are in a OFMD fan-fic meta-pastiche, porn-soaked, binge-fest playing the Stede role! It’s too much!!!

TriceratopsRocks · 15/08/2024 07:57

MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 07:24

@TriceratopsRocks i’m loving the Claire Gregory you recommended. I’m even more thrilled that Rupert is played by Johnny Flynn! Who before I discovered gay pirates was another one of my hyper-fixations. Dearest Johnny, I have neglected you! And here you are in a OFMD fan-fic meta-pastiche, porn-soaked, binge-fest playing the Stede role! It’s too much!!!

I'm so glad to hear it! It certainly kept me entertained 😁. And now I'm going to have to look up who Johnny Flynn is...

Nope, I don't know him at all.

Last night I was reading a very early fic of Claire's - Somewhere beyond the Sea. It was actually the first fic she ever wrote. It does pull scenes from S1, which I'm normally a bit sick of reading, but I didn't mind at all in her case because I was enjoying it :) No hanky panky in it either. Most unlike the Claire I'm used to! I'm now enjoying the sequel/prequel (yes it's both). The two stories together were am interesting concept.

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MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 08:14

@TriceratopsRocks Oh this show is so good! I adore it. You may have noticed

I’ve noticed 😆

I love them so much too. Every song is about them. Everything.

We’ll never have…

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 15/08/2024 08:18

Lucius is just awesome in season 1 and I was a bit sad that he lost some of his sass in season 2. I might have to watch the adventure/oranges episode again because that contains nearly all of my favourite Lucius (apart from the telescope scene obvs)

MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 08:22

@TriceratopsRocks Oh my goodness. Johnny Flynn! He’s Jerome Flynn’s half brother. You must’ve watched Soldier, Soldier back in the day. Robson and Jerome etc.

He’s a folk singer primarily, turned actor. He played Mr Knightley in 2020 version of Emma. You should watch that if you haven’t. He first came to my attention in 2018 when he played Dobbin in Vanity Fair. He’s also brilliant in The Dig (a superb film ruined only by Lily James). He plays Ian Fleming in Operation Mincemeat.

Oh, I adore him. The idea of him playing an eco-pirate Stede-type role has given me a stroke.

TriceratopsRocks · 15/08/2024 08:23

MrsJellybee · 15/08/2024 08:14

@TriceratopsRocks Oh this show is so good! I adore it. You may have noticed

I’ve noticed 😆

I love them so much too. Every song is about them. Everything.

We’ll never have…

Oh that's lovely! I didn't know the song but it's perfect. But I have to admit, all I can think of now is that I need a cup of tea.☕🫖 And I want it in one of those china cups they were using.

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