Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy again mateys! Can you believe we are now aboard thread 4? Stick around for chat about this brilliant show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more than a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back and join us 😀

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, three full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware that it's a show that needs time. It’s structured like a theatre production, with a prologue and 3 acts. The 2nd lead arrives (briefly) in episode 3. Episode 4 is the start of Act 1, where the tone changes and the main story begins. You need to give it at least 4 episodes, and from there it just gets better and better. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. And again. And again! If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might well be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5101662-our-flag-means-death-thread-3-its-still-utterly-brilliant-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=137315706

Two more chapters added for Chicago / Nomadsland. We're getting there. This Ed's hard work. But hoisted a little by his own petard here. Go, Stede.

And Alma rules.

Why is Ed being like this? Is it some kind of self flagellation? What does he want from Stede? Arrghh

Rhys... ❤️

And Con's green screen leg 🤣

Good to see him admit humiliation tactics and powerplay though. I knew that's what he was doing. This Ed's a prick.

The problem with Chicago Ed is that I hate him and feel really sad for Stede that he thinks he has to keep plugging away at this absolute bin fire

Aw, I'm quite enjoying it. I like an Ed with layers.

Objectively, Stede has really not been that nice to him.

I'm mainly reading for the Alma POV though. That take down of Ned Low!

Also, can Ed be an accountant? I'm guessing not.

I think that’s just what they said to Alma at the museum.

I’m actually rooting for Stede to find handholding, cinema Frenchie again! Even amateur ornithologist Buttons is a better bet at this juncture.

The interwebs informed me a while back that ‘accountant’ is a joke. Taika’s messing with us with ‘Jeff, the accountant’. Apparently, OnlyFans folk state this at parties when asked what their job is as it’s boring and doesn’t need much follow-up. It’s what you say when you don’t want to state your real job. Nomads is just giving a nod to the show here.

Ed is the bar-owner. From my understanding of the early chapters, Lucius spots lonely men in said bar, sends for Ed who then woos them to his flat upstairs in order to dom them. Except he falls for Stede. Stede is extraordinarily vulnerable from the start in this one. It’s obviously his first gay experience. I have no sympathy for Ed.

Ah well, we can't all like the same stuff eh?

I've found some of the other recs a bit saccharine so am enjoying seeing where Nomad goes with this.

You know, I think I need them both just to be fundamentally likeable and I agree that neither of them really are in this one.

It would be really boring if we did!

I’ll still accept an Ed redemption. I did think Nomad offered some sort of mitigation when Ed looked at Stede as if he were scared of him. I think that’s the rub. Ed’s so far gone on Stede he’s terrified of the emotional pain he can cause him. I mean, that’s the show, isn’t it? Stede does actually hold the power, he just doesn’t know or understand the power he has over Ed. I’m not sure he ever really does.

They're both powerful in different ways. Thinking about it, you kind of forget how much power Ed still has over Stede because the hold that Stede has over Ed comes as a surprise in the series. But they're both really vulnerable and both really powerful. And both very charismatic in different ways - it's less obvious with Stede but the bottom line is he wins over every single person on that ship through kindness, even though they all think they want to kill him 😂

@CarterBeatsTheDevil that’s so beautifully put. The psychology of these two characters fascinates me endlessly. Ed wears his pain more overtly, but Stede’s pain isn’t any less. Stede remakes (discovers?) his whole sexual and emotional identity around Ed. He’s Ed-sexual. He can’t see another man due to the existence of Ed (which always makes Stizzy shippers seem so silly).

If anyone wants to see briefly how Stede might’ve danced with Ed… They were so clearly meant to dance!

https://www.tumblr.com/queeraspirates/732532745138569216?source=share

@MrsJellybee I don't think Stede allows himself to feel his pain. He's too used to it. He's completely detached from it. He doesn't really know who he is until he meets Ed. He thinks it's his job to make everyone else happy, and nobody's job to make him happy.

Adorable - Rhys dancing I mean.

... apart from the bit where he abandons his wife and kids, obviously, which is a tough bit to digest in the Stede arc. But I think the way he flees under cover of darkness, so to speak, really reflects his core belief that happiness isn't an entitlement for him.

@CarterBeatsTheDevil he’s a strange mix of altruism and hedonism is Stede. I think you see occasionally where the two conflict like the situation with the oranges. Stede is too focused on organising the treasure hunt in order to keep Ed aboard and not interested at all in the scurvy situation. He’s just fascinating. They both are. They’re so loveably flawed.

It's really interesting to speculate on whether he'd have been that way about the scurvy if Ed hadn't joined the Revenge. Possibly yes, actually, he's great at making people feel good about themselves but terrible at actual common sense

And it’s actually Stede’s hedonism which has caused the scurvy situation with the 40 oranges glaze cake! I think it’s really important that Roach interrupts the conversation where Ed says he’s off soon for his next adventure. Stede simply cannot process the oranges emergency because all that is ringing in his ears is Ed’s potential departure.

Someone said Stede is all intelligence, no wisdom.

Side note: if Rhys Darby was just a TINY BIT TALLER I'd be very into him by now.