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Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!

989 replies

TriceratopsRocks · 06/08/2024 22:08

Ahoy again mateys! Can you believe we are now aboard thread 4? Stick around for chat about this brilliant show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more than a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back and join us 😀

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, three full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware that it's a show that needs time. It’s structured like a theatre production, with a prologue and 3 acts. The 2nd lead arrives (briefly) in episode 3. Episode 4 is the start of Act 1, where the tone changes and the main story begins. You need to give it at least 4 episodes, and from there it just gets better and better. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. And again. And again! If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might well be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5101662-our-flag-means-death-thread-3-its-still-utterly-brilliant-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=137315706

Page 38 | Our Flag Means Death. It's utterly brilliant and I am obsessed! | Mumsnet

I'm sure I found a thread on this series a while ago, but now season 2 is out I've looked back and I can't find anything apart from the...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

OP posts:
Thread gallery
211
BillStickersIsInnocent · 19/08/2024 20:17

Phineyj · 18/08/2024 15:18

Been on holiday again (no tentacle pix this time, sadly).

Thanks for the Narrowboat AU continuation rec. Looks promising. Also you guys prompted me to have another go at 'Tree Change' (which I gave up on before as a bit meta for me - still found it meta but read most of it this time). I enjoyed the cave dive drama and some parts of it were very funny.

Here's a soft, completed story in which Stede and Ed are both artists, of very different kinds. Some good landscape painting tips as well! And top quality Lucius, also clothing descriptions. Tastefully more or less off camera sex which makes a break from the Claire Gregory approach tbh (desk sex in the middle of a break-and-enter...really??!)

archiveofourown.org/works/41788335?view_full_work=true

Thank you for this rec! I loved it - the characterisations of Ed and Stede were perfect and the crew cameos were fab too.

I’m on leave at the moment so lots of reading time, marvellous.

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 19/08/2024 20:28

TriceratopsRocks · 19/08/2024 19:49

But you have to admit, @CarterBeatsTheDevil , it certainly fulfils the 'no smut' promise!

It was exactly, and gloriously, as promised 🥰

MrsJellybee · 19/08/2024 21:34

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 19/08/2024 20:28

It was exactly, and gloriously, as promised 🥰

Second, that. I LOVED it! I do find many of the fics written before season 2 are so much sweeter and in-keeping with the more innocent vibes of season 1. It was so clever too. I was up, down, all over the place, but it was never too angsty. Thank you @TriceratopsRocks

MrsJellybee · 20/08/2024 06:05

The fandom is certifiably insane. Here we go again 🤣

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Phineyj · 20/08/2024 07:31

You're welcome, @BillStickersIsInnocent. I particularly liked the Stede and Mary relationship in it too. She's so funny, storming in all "what are your intentions?" and then having to back down when she likes him.

MrsJellybee · 20/08/2024 12:27

I’ve just finished reading this fic. It’s the same writer, foxtails, as the fire-watchers and jukebox ones. I think she’s fast becoming my favourite fan fic writer.

Trigger warnings: Ed is actively suicidal and planning in chp 1. This is a ‘post’ post-apocalyptic world. It circles back a few times to Ed’s frame of mind in chp 1. later in the story when he explains his feelings and thought processes.

But this is ultimately an uplifting, optimistic, reasons to live story. Stede arrives at the end of chp 1 in a rather understated way, but with such utterly kind, life-affirming, Stedeness that it took my breathe away. Only 42k words, but feels much longer in terms of punch. Angst immediately met with emotionally intelligent conversation. Oh, and if you want to call it smut, it’s romantic, loving smut. (Still hot though 😉)

https://archiveofourown.org/works/57247294/chapters/145616551

send out the morning birds - Chapter 1 - foxtails - Our Flag Means Death (TV) [Archive of Our Own]

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

https://archiveofourown.org/works/57247294/chapters/145616551

TriceratopsRocks · 20/08/2024 18:37

MrsJellybee · 20/08/2024 12:27

I’ve just finished reading this fic. It’s the same writer, foxtails, as the fire-watchers and jukebox ones. I think she’s fast becoming my favourite fan fic writer.

Trigger warnings: Ed is actively suicidal and planning in chp 1. This is a ‘post’ post-apocalyptic world. It circles back a few times to Ed’s frame of mind in chp 1. later in the story when he explains his feelings and thought processes.

But this is ultimately an uplifting, optimistic, reasons to live story. Stede arrives at the end of chp 1 in a rather understated way, but with such utterly kind, life-affirming, Stedeness that it took my breathe away. Only 42k words, but feels much longer in terms of punch. Angst immediately met with emotionally intelligent conversation. Oh, and if you want to call it smut, it’s romantic, loving smut. (Still hot though 😉)

https://archiveofourown.org/works/57247294/chapters/145616551

Thank you for this, MrsJ. I actually started this one a while ago but wasn't in the right headspace for Chapter 1 Ed, so I stopped reading. I'm so glad you recommended it, because this time I have been able to really appreciate how wonderful it is.

OP posts:
Phineyj · 20/08/2024 19:36

Loved that fic, @MrsJellybee, although it really is hard to read all the well described depression. That poor author :(. It is interesting and different and I loved that it managed to realistically integrate Stede's beloved horse!

BillStickersIsInnocent · 20/08/2024 19:45

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 19/08/2024 19:20

"Your Love Might Break My Heart" is hilarious but also it might be going to destroy me forever. I'm on chapter 3 and there had better be a happy ending or I'm coming for you, @TriceratopsRocks

Oh my. Those silly silly boys.

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 20/08/2024 19:50

BillStickersIsInnocent · 20/08/2024 19:45

Oh my. Those silly silly boys.

Right?!

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 20/08/2024 19:51

TriceratopsRocks · 20/08/2024 18:37

Thank you for this, MrsJ. I actually started this one a while ago but wasn't in the right headspace for Chapter 1 Ed, so I stopped reading. I'm so glad you recommended it, because this time I have been able to really appreciate how wonderful it is.

I really enjoyed this one. Lovely stuff. I might go back and read the life-drawing one again, actually. It's one of the first ones I read and it's just really sweet and angst-lite.

MrsJellybee · 20/08/2024 20:00

What I loved about the fic so much is that Stede isn’t the answer but rather the inspiration to go on living. Be more Stede.

MrsJellybee · 20/08/2024 21:43

I’m putting put up the media pre-release pics of Taika from tomorrow’s Time Bandits 9+10 finale episodes, but I’ve blurred them (hopefully) in case folks prefer non-spoilers. Loving the third one especially.

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Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
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Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
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Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
BillStickersIsInnocent · 20/08/2024 21:56

All I can see in that first one is a face of a dog in his necklaces!

Love the white studded leather.

Phineyj · 20/08/2024 22:40

Ooh well that answers my question of whether I can binge the lot next week. Apparently I can! That is going to make 2 days of INSET very bearable 😂 p.s. I also see the dog in the jewellery.

BillStickersIsInnocent · 20/08/2024 22:54

Enjoy @Phineyj! Episode 7 is my favourite so far, very funny.

TriceratopsRocks · 21/08/2024 01:14

I managed to get another episode in tonight. Yippee! Up to 2.6 now. This is the episode with the most significant rewrites. I'm not actually sure the original plot would have worked (the crew giving Stede a makeover to 'encourage' Ed - Stede didn't need a makeover to be attractive to Ed). So instead we have Ned Low and Calypso's birthday.

First Ned. He starts in a lighthouse. He wears a silver suit. He is a beacon in the dark. He's a warning. We know Stede is a lighthouse so this is what Stede could become if he acts like a ‘traditional' pirate captain. I've linked an article where once of the make up artists says they wanted to make Ned look like was rotting from the inside out - yuk! But that sounds like the shows depiction of traditional piracy to me - rotten/toxic on the inside, despite the outward glamour that people wanted to see from famous pirates, like '9 guns' Blackbeard!

As for Calypso, it means to conceal; ‘she who hides’. But the crew are no longer hiding. The party is a wonderful release where everyone can finally let go and be themselves.

Stede using his charm to get Ned's crew on side - I love his interaction with Hellcat Maggie (DJ’s ex wife). “She has a name, a beautiful one”. He's killing with kindness here - exactly as he wanted in 1.1

Stede's reaction to killing Ned - Rhys is brilliant here. We see a flash back to the young boy who loved flowers - Stede losing the last of his innocence. But Ned needed to die. Afterwards, Ed knows that being alone is the worst thing for Stede so he goes to comfort him. How often has someone been there for Stede in that way? Have they ever?

I love what has been noticed about Ed and Stede's different responses to capture - Ed willing to give up his life to protect Stede, but is Stede willing to kill to protect Ed. Which exactly fits what we have learned of these characters, but subverts what we might have originally expected.

The wall kiss! Stede needs grounding. He needs hugs and closeness. He needs Ed. That grab, and Ed’s shocked “woah!” as he's dragged to the wall (thank you slow motion gifs 😁). We see their kiss in a mirror - they are being given privacy. And this might not be what they wanted for their first time, but it’s not a whim! Off camera Stede has removed his shirt, closed the door. They've moved to the bed, Stede closes the curtains. Time and care is being taken here. And lots of love - that expression on Ed's face as Stede closes the curtain - it's so tender.

Other favourites:
Archie's ‘escape from snake’ talk - I adore Archie!
Calypso's birthday was Frenchie’s idea. He's showing the skills he'll use as a captain; crew morale is important, as this episode shows.
Pete and Lucius’ pre revenge window 😂
Party lighting - red is the colour of their love and purple is Ed's colour. We see red and purple several times, including when chatting together at the side of the boat and when they are on the bed. But they still have their difficulties, as demonstrated by the distance between them. I just want them to be closer! Yes they are turned towards each other, but they are just too far apart for me. I am impatient for hugs at that point. And I wanted to see that dance!
Special mention to Stede's low cut, teal top 😍 I want a more decent version of this outfit!

Finally, how to throw your own Calypso party! - actually an interview with Gypsy Taylor and make up artists, but it does include some tips 😁
https://www.polygon.com/23922400/our-flag-means-death-calypso-party-bts-interview-how

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
OP posts:
TriceratopsRocks · 21/08/2024 01:25

To clarify - I want a more decent version of Stede's teal/leather combo for me to wear. I'm perfectly happy with Stede's version as it is!!! 😁

OP posts:
MrsJellybee · 21/08/2024 07:13

BillStickersIsInnocent · 20/08/2024 22:54

Enjoy @Phineyj! Episode 7 is my favourite so far, very funny.

It’s the sister, innit? 😆

BillStickersIsInnocent · 21/08/2024 07:42

MrsJellybee · 21/08/2024 07:13

It’s the sister, innit? 😆

She’s stolen the show for me - she’s utterly fabulous.

MrsJellybee · 21/08/2024 08:28

Thank you for 2.6 @TriceratopsRocks

I know this episode had significant rewrites. There should have been an episode between 2.5 and this one, I think. For the first time for me, this is where the entire series wobbles and the story doesn’t flow smoothly. We’ve thrashed out enough why this happened. It’s no-one’s fault other than the uber capitalists so I will save my criticism for them.

You’ve covered so much, Tri. I’ll just add a few more things that stand out to me.

Absolutely with the lighthouse symbolism as a parallel to Stede. I think the lighthouse also represents traditional masculinity and patriarchy. We see it when Ed kills his father (but also the Light of Stede is shining into that memory as Ed confesses). We see Ed ‘crack up on the rocks’ when Stede goes back to his traditional role within a patriarchal society. We see the lighthouse pic behind Izzy when he threatens Ed. So is Stede a lighthouse? I think Stede is the light within the lighthouse, and needs to get rid of the ‘house’ part. The vertical masculine. We see a ‘good’ lighthouse in 1.4, all light and pretend house. We see a different lighthouse in 2.3 when Stede brings it down to Ed’s purgatory. The fact that Ned is using the heat from the light in his torture has just struck me as symbolic. Weaponising something good and changing it. Does that happen to Stede in this episode?

No criticism of Con, but what is that line doing where he’s drunk and says he’s mistaken Ed for Roach? Why on earth did the writers, many whom are people of colour themselves, put those words into Izzy’s mouth? It’s a sort of parallel with 1.9 when Ed tells Badminton all white folk (implied) look the same.

Ed’s odd in this episode. It feels like Taika’s checked out a bit. Maybe that’s deliberate. I’d like to know the sequence of filming as this feels end of series and time for Taika’s nap.

I wish they’d kept the original line with Taika’s kids as ‘Are you two boyfriends?’ rather than ‘Are you pirates?’ Both answers to those questions need to be asked and answered.

The party’s lovely. Great to see the crew having fun. Set design is amazing. When Ned attacks, one of my favourite parallels is Ed’s physical defending of Stede as a mirror of the 1.9 blindfold scene. Ed’s defending of Stede is: I will risk being killed trying to defend you from hurt (1.9, 2.6), and Stede’s defending of Ed is: I will kill anyone who tries to hurt you (1.5, 2.6).

I love Stede’s ‘oh shit’ and Ed’s ‘you torture like a bitch’ 🤣

I adore Ed’s ‘it’s me you want, it’s me you want!’ in defence of Stede’s imminent torture. Ed would take a thousand burns over one for Stede. They may not literally have their names written on each other in permanent ink, but they both came out of this encounter with similar Marks of Cain burned into them, figuratively and literally.

Stede using emotional intelligence to turn Ned’s crew. I read a comment from DJenks that Stede doesn’t know his own power in this regard.

Was there an alternative to killing Ned? I don’t understand the criticism of Stede here. I don’t see the great mastermind, Ed, coming up with an alternative. Ed should’ve done it himself if he’d wanted to spare Stede’s soul.

The look on Ed’s face are where the seeds are sown for 2.7.

Izzy’s traditional masculine response to leave Stede on his own to process what has happened immediately counteracted by Ed who goes to him immediately. Such growth.

The next scene is a parallel of the bath tub scene in 1.6. Stede is alone and ruminating. Ed knocks the door, but doesn’t need to knock the door down as Stede did like the sexy rectangle he is, as Stede opens it immediately. The trust has grown between them so much. Stede knows this is Ed and he’s come to offer comfort. Ed’s voice is so soft. I like that chatterbox Stede doesn’t speak here. It really ramps up the tension. Ed’s empathy here is really something. The line ‘well, it was my Dad’ is the same black humour we see in 1.6, but it is so brave. Stede is the only person he has ever told this to and he thinks it’s why he left him. Yet he still offers it again as psychological support. I have never loved Ed more. And neither has Stede, it seems.

The grab and twirl needs to be watched in slo-mo. Both their faces are really something. As Tri said, mirrors are so important again here. In 1.6, the boys are reflected apart in the mirrors. Ed and Stede are separated by Ed’s Mark of Cain. Stede cannot know what it is to kill in cold blood. In 2.6, they are shown intertwined in the same mirror. No longer the Gentleman Pirate and Blackbeard, but simply Stede and Ed. They’re equals in their goodness and their sins.

I love their little ‘tells’ whenever they kiss. Ed plays with the collar on Stede’s shirt and Stede clutches Ed’s hair. Beautiful.

The curtain in the bed-nook is very ocean-coded to me. Ed is below Stede in the same clothing as he was in the gravy basket water. Stede is above, bare-chested, ready to ‘rescue’. He’s forever Merstede to Ed.

I’ll put the parallel pics separately. Sorry this was so long!

Phineyj · 21/08/2024 08:28

Thanks @TriceratopsRocks. Lots of food for thought for my own re-watch there. I will add that I love Ed's line: 'I only hang out with cool pirates' (he thinks Stede is one 😍) and the inference that he gets him the new outfit. Maybe that's the last remnant of the 'makeover' plot.

Also Ed's dismissal of the 'evil villain backstory' as hackneyed and uninteresting. I can't remember the exact line - something like 'it's family stuff; it always is'? Which shows he's come to terms with his own 'family stuff' I guess.

MrsJellybee · 21/08/2024 08:29

Different mirrors, same mirror.

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
MrsJellybee · 21/08/2024 08:30

Ed’s love for Stede

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
MrsJellybee · 21/08/2024 08:31

Forever Merstede

Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!
Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!