Child of our Time, tonight, BBC1, 9pm

[OldieMum]

For anyone who hasn't seen this before - it's a fascinating, long-term study of a group of children born around 2000 being done by a team working with Prof. Robert Winston. This is the latest instalment, focussing on how children first become aware of social distinctions like class and race and also looking at their first day at school.

I'm ashamed to say that William reminded me slightly of my DD2 (also 5) . She is incredibly strong-willed BUT is equally disciplined by both DH and I. I would say she does "bully" my older 2 children - not so much as in "violence" but wanting to get her own way a lot and shouting.

I'm nothing like Williams mum - but I did understand where she was coming from when she said "sometimes I find it hard to like him".

I would say I've treated all 3 exactly the same -even DS1 who I have "actively" encouraged his feminine side - my older 2 are very easy-going kids, DD2 is a bloody whirlwind! DH often says if it wasn't for the fact that she looks like me, he would say that we bought the wrong baby home!

both james' mum and dad have learning difficulties.His mum didn't go to school a lot and was brought up in care. In one of the earlier programmes, social services were threatening to take the kids into care because the flat was in such a state. I think that her ld has probably got quite a bit to do with the dodgy choices she has made..for eg, the violent boyfriend.
I think it's unfair to criticise her for moaning about the flat. She had no money, and without being horrible, she doesn't seem to have much about her if you know what i mean. Doing up that flat probably seems insurmountable. I wonder if james ever sees his dad?
when she could only take what she could carry to the refuge, did anybody else think that the camera crew should have helped out? surely they had a van ?

Probably been mention, I haven't read this whole thread.

I didn't like the way the woman at the beginning was talking about the big house and small house in the way that unless you are rich you are not happy.

Knew it would upset me seeing James last night. But how amazing that his little lad is able to distance himself from the negative aspects of his home life in nursery and school. So pleased that he is popular. How unfair life can be for some people. Thank my lucky stars that I have an upbringing free from what James's mum has had to go through. She is doing well, considering what she has gone through in life.
Williams's dad needs the slap - not him! Typical Sexist male. Forgot about W's mum's PND. Now, my opinion of her has changed!
Will continue to watch but am also questionning it all.

alexsmum I said that about the camera crew to DH

and for James to have to leave his toys

I suppose they wouldn't have had much room in refuge but we did think it unfair on children with crew standing there to see them struggle to carry it.

Dont' forget also with James' mum and the refuge - the she could only take as much stuff as would fit into the car which she was picked up in. The camera crew wouldn't have been able to follow her to the refuge for her own safety (they probably didn't even know where the refuge was)! Which meant they'd have been left with a van full of stuff that belonged to someone else..

yes agree, lonelymum and sinclair about leadign questions - "and how will you run this businesss?" child answers "don't know", hardly suggests she has the entrepreneurial ambitions suggested by the piece I read in the Telegraph at the weekend.
I do think they focus more on some children than others, but also recall the scottish twins, the irish boy I could hardly understand, the pretty little Asian girl and others. sure they will come up in later progs.
Felt so sad about James.
also very very sad about the awful racial sterotyping, even a lovely little black girl wanted to play only with the white girl!

i'm not keen on william's mum either, tho not sure why, maybe because she seems not to like him or her dh much (and what about that sunburn!)
I wondered why nobody suggested to James's mum she strap her children into the car? She does have learning difficulties, wouldn't you think the camera crew would just help out?

The question that got me most was the one about in which house do you think the child is happy? It implied the correct answer was to say one house had a happy child and one didn't. Left with that choice, any child would pick the big, fairy-tale like house. The fact that they did, doesn't mean that they already associate wealth with happiness, just that they were trying to please the questioner and get the answer "right". Can you tell I have done a bit of child psychology in my time?

I haven't seen the prog yet (taped it) but from what's been said further down just reminded me. DS3 went to a French-speaking nursery school when he was 4. The main assistant was a young black man. DS3 doted on him & was really upset when Jean-Paul suddenly disappeared. He was convinced for years after that all black people were French, because J-P was the only black person he'd ever come across. We drove through Lewisham just after he started school & he couldn't believe how many French people there were in London. It hadn't occured to me this was an age-thing.

I am looking forward to them showing the Glaswegian twins, Alex and Ivo. I found the previous programmes really informative on twin development, more so than the (very few available) articles and books I have read.

I loved when one of them said "My mammy says I'm a boy!" They do remind me of my dst although mine are a year younger. Kind of lets me know what to possibly expect. The last one (or the one before) focused on the twins fussy eating and by using what the programme advised I coped when my dst started that way!

I hated though during the last programme they went on and on about this single mum (the one with the little girl) becoming a police officer. The show wasn't about her! Wasted a lot of time on that so I hope they don't do it again.

Was William not very quiet last time? Was he not the one standing alone in the playground when they covered how popular certain children were?

I also look forward to getting updated on the little boy who was doing Prof. Winston's hair last night. I remember when he would do this strange freezing thing when eating and felt so sorry for him and his mum (she had a bad time with her DH.)

Oh yes, twoifbysea, I knew I remembered his face and that he had an interesting story - can't wait to get an update on him.

Like some of you I feel interested and uncomfortable at the same time watching this programme. Child development fascinates me but I wonder where you draw the line, WRT privacy. I will continue to watch, and hope that people like James and Carol esp, do well.

WRT to the 'experiments' and their outcomes, bear in mind they do a heck of a lot of filming and in many cases perhaps the outcome of the filming determines the type of theory put out to us in the programme. Hence the use of certain children for certain tests (do we only see the answers they want us to see?)

teh expiriment with dif coloured kids proved nothing . Why were there no dark haired white kids to choose from?

think they make it up as thet go along

The parents are the most interesting bit

I would have liked to see how mixed race children reacted in the skin colour experiment.

Does anybody think that the children reacting to pictures of children of different races may have been influenced by trying to please the researcher who was, I think, white? Great telly but lame science in my opinion!

Mammya - my son is 'mixed race' we call him coloured but apparently that's politcally incorrect LOL.

He tends to go towards other coloured children, or black children.

Today was VERY interesting for me with DS2 (13 months). Took him to toddler church and he was being rather clingy - all white children apart from him. Another mum arrived a few minutes later than everyone else with her two little boys, one's about 4 1/2yrs, the younger about 19 months. DS2 IMMIDIATELY became 'animated' and walked straight over to her youngest boy -they're an indian family!

I'm sure dd1 would have reacted differently. Anybody she knows who is non white she calls Indian. She thinks Indians are really cool (loves the dancing, the clothes and the dhol drums) and says an Indian lad at school is her boyfriend. I'm sure there are other reasons why the children responded in the way they did.

re: the houses experiment - got me a bit paranoid 'cos the little house looks exactly like ours!! Am hoping ds (only 3) doesn't think we're really poor and unhappy and he'll have to be a cleaner when he grows up...!

My dd is mixed race too. We live in an area that's very culturally mixed and there are children of all ethnic groups as well as mixed race children at her nursery. I don't know that she's is attracted more to white, brown, black or whatever faces, can't say I've noticed.

Ds is 5 and he is proud of his mix he knows he is half black (from me) and half white ( dh) and he is a beautiful beige colour like his baby brother is too. He plays with a mixture of chidren mostly white 2 mixed race and 3 asian, I honestly don't know what he would have picked. but I feel he would have chose the white boy or theasian boy as his best friend is asian but not the black boy because there are no black boys in his class and all the boys in our family are mixed race. I feel like I said on the Multicultural Thread that I feel the children picked the colour child they are used to playing with. My son has positive roll models from both colours but his little friends are mainly white or asian so he may have picked the white child. If the white child had have been a girl, he wouldn't have picked her because he "doesn't like girlies!" The black boy Tyreese picked the black child everytime because that is who is biggest influence is at school he goes to a nursery with mainly black children ad all his friends are black so it is obvious why he chose them. Children will especially pick what they know and are surrounded by. I sometimes think this programme points out the obvious.

glad this is bumped as I forgot it last week.

Haven't had time to read all of these, but something did strike me about the house experiment which was - they didn't seem to acknowledge that the children might have been interpreting the question a different way, in that the big house could be seen by the kids as a reward for being good and nice - ie: not that having a big house makes you a good person (which is what the prog seemed to imply the children thought), but that if you are good, then you will be rewarded with the bigger house, IYSWIM. It would fit in with both current child rearing "rewarding the positive" strategies as well as with good old-fashioned bribery. Perhaps I am reading too much into it, and of course it's hard for four year olds to express those kinds of sibtleties. I do find the whole thing fascinating though and have got bvery fond of some of the kids - little blonde Helena who was so premature (and I think lost her twin sister at birth), and James who's mum does really make an effort and has always tried to take up the programme's suggestions to help him - I remember last time he was a bit stir crazy in the flat and she started taking him to the park more when it was suggested and it really helped.

sibleties? What kind of w word is that? It should read subtleties...

Hi,

I just tried the race experiment with my dd, who is 4.5. She is white, but goes to a very mixed school, where white children are a minority, and her friends are mostly asian (indian/muslim) and black. My partner is Indian also.

She picked out the indian girl and occasionally the white girl for positive things, which didn't particulary surprise me. She said the black child would be most likely not to share and to be nasty which did surprise me as she has quite a few black friends.

I can't help thinking if she has these attitudes with her social surroundings, it is hardly surprising that children that live in predominantly white areas often have negative attitudes.

It was good fun trying it out anyway!