Child of our Time, tonight, BBC1, 9pm

[OldieMum]

For anyone who hasn't seen this before - it's a fascinating, long-term study of a group of children born around 2000 being done by a team working with Prof. Robert Winston. This is the latest instalment, focussing on how children first become aware of social distinctions like class and race and also looking at their first day at school.

I think his father had LD as well - she definitely had a bad childhood and I think I remember she didn't get much schooling.

I think they also said last night that she grew up in care.

james m,ums new house looked nicely decorated from where I was sitting

why do you all feel sorry for james? i missed most of it

williams mum WAS funny. i think she just had a very dry sense of humour, i dont really think she would have chucked him into the nearest canal

yes I think she woudl have
think kames mum shoudlnt have taken them there beffore it was kitted out
cnat see why the ex wasnt locked upo

Totally agree about the leading questions - didn't sound very scientific to me - liked the one about the lady who lived in the smaller house doing the cleaning - 'and cleaning other people's houses?', queried the researcher, to which the little girl was seen agreeing. But the association of white face with positive characteristics whatever your colour was frightening.

I agree Blu, I am not a psychologist or an academic but I worked for years in television and am naturally cynical about the motives of production teams. In my experience almost anything gets justified for the sake of viewing figures! I don't know how you could make this series as compelling without including the distress (the same goes for all the toddler-taming programmes) as people are saying on this thread: 'normality' may not be deemed interesting eonugh for the viewers. I cannot argue against it legally because they will have got all the proper permissions, I suppose my strong instinct is that a distressed child should not be filmed - it seems perfectly unethical, gratuitous and voyeuristic. They are not old enough to object and maybe children should be protected from some of their parents' decisions? But I am sure that the producers can justify anything they do because they have the great god Winston and a big panel of psychologists (who will have their careers enhanced by the series) to back up any decisions. I can't help thinking these children are like lab rats in psychology tests. However I am pretty comfortable with the positive aspects of the lives shown. It's the suffering that seems intrusive. Distressed adults are different altogether because they should have to sign a release form. I just resent the way pseudo-science like Winston's dominates factual television - endless assertions and loaded evidence that can usually be summed up as white middle class people looking at everyone else and saying: "ooooo - check out all the horrid savages! It's not like that in Crouch End!" Please everyone, forgive my rant - this is such a sore point with me!

i thought the little house looked fine

obv i am not 4 though

lots of laundry area!

VFeist - I don't like people exploiting others for career-advancement, either. But you can look at it another way. Most of us live in comfortable little cocoons, surrounded by people who live and think in ways that are similar to us. Programmes like this give those of us living comfortable lives a chance to learn about other people's realities and, maybe, be more willing to support efforts to do something about social inequalities. Think about the effect that 'Cathy Come Home' had on political support, and action, to do something about homelessness.

Where on earth is Crouch End??!

I thought james' mum was pretty ungrateful for the house they gave her!It only needed a bit doing but she was moaning straight away Also she used awful language in front of her kids and screamed at them all the time!I agree that these programmes rarely show a 'regular'family.

North London - also known as Crouche En' (as in French Pronunciation)

that show is a load of old cobblers. I just watch it so I can feel smug about my own 5 year old, and I bet thats why most people watch it.

Absolutely Oldiemum, I agree that is a positive result of the programme. I'm only asking if it's ethical? Most of the series is fine with me, the presentation of different lives is absolutely fine. It is purely the filming of a child's distress that I do not think is justifiable. It is moving and emotionally informative but that is possible to achieve while protecting some of the child's privacy. I couldn't defend that long section last night while Tyrese was crying on your grounds I don't think. I would ask specifically - what are his rights in that instance? Does he have any beyond his parents say so? It's only my opinion but I believe there are other ways of achieving the same end more creatively while respecting the child. I know directors who would try to achieve it. I don't sense that the production team on this series cares to look harder for another way. This is said with great respect for all their obvious talents and hard work.

oh and I object to all the pseudo-science waffle too! Also Oldiemum, was Cathy Come Home a drama not a documentary? I think it was Ken Loach but not sure.

I have watched from the beginning of time and always expected that CArol James mum would self destruct and her kids would ne d up in care.
In the beginning do you all remember how filthy her house was and she had people to come and show her how to clean and arrange her life?
It was really sad, I am actually really impressed with how her little lad has turned out so far, I thought he'd be one of those kids you glare at and want to slap, but thankfully that was the middle class ones boy I wanted to pinch hardest!
Dh went to the same private school as William is going to and knows his Dad...
Also remember when William was born how depressed his mum got that prob shook bonding and also she was pathologically shy - I think she's really droll and funny!
Wonder if that lad Paris is on? His mum alison has no arms and legs and that was one amazing tale of parenting!
The little girl Helena is just like my 2 yo daughter, petite smily and just a little bit different that you would notice..
I will shut up....

Point taken, VFeist, and you're right about CCH. But there is still an issue about Tyrese. I thought that was the one of the most powerful scenes. It reflected badly on his mother's 'tough love' approach and showed how his teachers were trying hard to help him through a crisis that his mother seemed barely interested in. An important lesson for many parents, I would think, but, as you say, highly intrusive for him.

I don't think Carol was complaining about the new flat - she seemed really enthusiatic. It was only when the children started moaning about it that she got upset - but with them, not the flat.

I found it absolutely fascinating. Very sad that so many black children picked white faces as exemplifying positive characteristics - I was truly shocked and it made me totally reevaluate what Tyrese's mother was doing. Initially I thought she was wrong, but clearly have underestimated the power of racism. How depressing.
I also really, really feel for James. Also thought James's sister was lovely - very sunny and positive.
I think there are loads of 'normal' families in the series. I thought the Yorkshire family were extremely normal and stable, so were the Jewish family, plus there are lots of others in the series that we will no doubt see more of. And of course, when the families were originally picked nobody could predict with certainty that some couples would split up.
I didn't care for William's mum much - very aggressive I thought, extremely hands-off even when William was hurting his siblings and I was cross about the sunburn too. MInd you, I also agree with everyone about his dad smirking away all the time. It was like two different families -William and his dad, v the other kids and their mum.

yes dad was odd want he?

i only watched half of it what was the story with the house move and williams family?

think ther was a MIl story think william needed to be ecercised liek all boys do
they shoudl have taken him out for a long walk and amde him run fohours

and he neede to be a littel bit scared of his mum IMO

Hope the mums on the prog. don't read mumsnet!!! I must admit I was much more impressed with James' mum than with William's mum. There was obvious love there despite the shouting and the poverty and she remained extremely positive in circumstances in which lots of other women would have crumbled. William I think is a product of his mother's refusing to allow him any access to his feminine side and his father's indulgence. He also appears to have been given very few, if any, boundaries by either of them and, as his older brother said, has become a bully; worse than that, a bully whose behaviour is condoned in different ways by both parents.

William reminded me of ds in some ways (who by the way is exercised like a horse, is severely dealt with by me and dh and is reminded politely and not-so-politely of his place in the family)but who still retains his spark (she says through gritted teeth). Unless you live with it day in day out, year in year out, it's hard to imagine - as I would find to do if I only had dd, or a couple like her.