Who is watching Doctor Who tonight

[Firefly2009]

And if you've now seen it, what are your thoughts?

I'm predicting I will love it no matter what. But look forward to discussing it.

Trans actor seems a fair description tbh.

Someone who thinks they can act but is utterly appalling at it.

I really enjoyed it. It was great to see DT & CT back. The story was quite typical of DW, I think.

I must admit to finding the Rose character confusing. I assumed Rose was an adult & couldn't work out how Donna could have an adult child. When she mentioned Rose being at school, it was odd. Is that how the young boy fitted in? It's a little strange if he was Rose's friend.

Didn't Doctor Donna say, "Binary, binary, binary" in the original episode? As in computer language? They adapted that to include Rose. I could see that as the Dr is neither male or female - he's an alien! Except Rose wasn't non- binary.

Tbh, most of that would have completely gone over a child's head.

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing the two of them have an adventure next week.

The difference with Harrison Ford and young actresses (distasteful as it is) is that they are both adults.

With “Rose” it is very different. Here we have an adult male being passed off as a female child and we are told we shouldn’t question it. There are knock on implications for that kind of thing as far as safeguarding goes.

I found the whole “only Rose can resolve the DoctorDonna dilemma because they’re non-binary” (putting aside that they’re not, they’re clearly trans) eye-rollingly stupid. All those misandrist “you’re a man, you wouldn’t get it” comments to an alien who has literally just regenerated from being a woman.

As someone who detests the concept of “non-binary” because it simply reinforces the binary of masculine / feminine stereotypes - we’re all non-binary, it’s just part of being human, since no one conforms to 100% of the gender stereotypes coded for their sex - I really disliked it being written as an actual “thing” that’s so important it’s vital for saving someone’s life. A whole load of impressionable children and teens are now going to feel further validated in persevering with something that is, fundamentally, a load of regressive sexist bullshit because it’s been written as canon in one of the most culturally important and widely-watched TV shows of all time, and badged as “progressive” at that. Knowing RTD’s oeuvre and DT’s “NB-identifying” child, none of this comes as a surprise but it is disappointing. (And YY to the irresponsibility of selling the message that teenage boys could get close to “passing” easily, by using a 20 year old actor who has had significant hormone therapy and voice coaching, and is made up and lit in the most flattering ways possible.)

All those misandrist “you’re a man, you wouldn’t get it” comments to an alien who has literally just regenerated from being a woman

Donna said "it's a shame you're not a woman any more" so they were hardly ignoring it.

So you accept time travel, aliens, regeneration etc, but preferred pronouns is a step too far? 🤔

Time travel, aliens and regeneration is fun entertainment.

Being lectured by the latest bore about their love of preferred pronouns isn’t.

They’re the antithesis of each other.

Being interested in time travel, aliens, regeneration: looking outwards, beyond the stars, wondering what else is out there in the vastness of the universe, imagining what wonderful (or terrible) different life forms might exist.

Getting hung up on pronouns: ME, ME, ME, I AM THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE UNIVERSE AND YOU MUST CHANGE THE ACCEPTED USE OF LANGUAGE TO ACCOMMODATE ME, ME, ME.

The fact they used a human actor for the Doctor and not someone from Gallifrey completely ruined it for me. I mean he's not even got two hearts.

If that’s supposed to be a gotcha about the concept of “acting”, you might want to think about the absolute fucking outcry if any programme so much as whispers the possibility of using a non-trans actor for a trans role. Eddie Redmayne and Julie Hesmondhalgh have both given appeasing, apologetic interviews about their decades-ago castings as trans characters.

I was most distracted by the actor who played Shaun looking exactly like my old boss. And the coffee in a teacup & saucer.

I wish I could walk around not noticing stuff. How simple life would be. As soon as Rose appeared I knew it was a guy. How could anyone say they would pass. Didn't pass as a female nor a teenager.

I’m assuming if they wanted a trans teenager it would be unethical to use an actual trans teenager as the actor, so 20 was as close as they could get.

I also imagine Yasmin was cast as HeartStopper has a very keen fan base who are likely to watch anything their favourite actors are in. Therefore RTD are pulling the old audience back with David and Catherine, and a new younger audience in with Yasmin.

If the show is being rebooted following low viewing numbers they’re going to want to pull people in.

Just out of interest, would you be happy if I used the incorrect pronouns to address you?

When I address a person I use thr second person pronoun. 'you' in English, formal or informal versions in other languages (Welsh, French, German, Spanish).

None of them are grammatically gendered. None depend on what sex the person I'm addressing is.

I’m not the poster you quoted but as someone who clearly has the same view of preferred pronouns as them I can say I…don’t really care. I’ve been addressed as “Sir” more than once in the past (I’m female; my name is also used for a male video game character) and it didn’t trigger a meltdown, a dressing-down for the person who made the error, a psychic injury or an identity crisis. Each time it happened was just a brief moment of miscommunication and then we all moved on with our lives.

(To be grammatically precise though, if you were actually addressing me, the correct pronoun would be the unsexed “you”. If you were using third person pronouns that would usually indicate I wasn’t present and you were talking about me to someone else, in which case I genuinely wouldn’t give a shit how you referred to me because I wouldn’t be there to hear it.)

If someone is male they are male. If someone is female they are female. You don't get to pick and choose like it's your favourite ice cream because you don't happen to like being male or female. You just are. And it's not just about 'being nice'. It's compelled speech which has massive social and political ramifications.

I really wish that people would stop reducing this to 'be kind' and you wouldn't be happy if...

It's not that straight forward and simple - mainly because you don't cease to be male/female just because you say you are, even if you take hormones, have surgery or have a bit of paper to say differently.

I’ve been addressed as “Sir” more than once in the past

No one in our house noticed she was trans till I pointed it out. I only knew as I recognised her from something I’d seen online.

I think where it fell down is that she’s clearly had medical intervention to present how she does and to portray her as 15 feels very unfair and unrealistic (and I realise this is a programme about a time travelling, shape shifting timelord with two hearts in a flying box).

Which of course led to the shopping for feminine clothes, being told she could "pass" and the immortal line:
"Miranda, why are you dressed like a transvestite?"

I knew Yasmin from Heartstopper and agree they have passing privilege but that they also looked their age in this (20).

*Ooh, rereading Donna’s poignant line…"

“something's missing", as she puts it. "Like I had something lovely and it’s gone… some nights I lie in bed thinking 'what have I lost?'"

Nothing to do with her child, she's referring to how she knows she used to have something (the Dr) and now he's gone, there's an empty space in her memory, she senses there's something missing

I’m sure a lot of people are misgendered on here. I was a lecturer in a university Engineering department. A fair proportion of people probably assumed that I would be male if I signed myself Dr G Chemenger. Didn’t worry me (could be correct for all you know). Face to face you would be calling me you so no gendering. I would be concerned if you decided to call me he or she to my face, mostly for your grasp of English.

@AnImaginaryCat

,also let us not let the tuna madras go uncommented*

Ha yes I was like WTF, tuna madras?! That sounds rank 😂

The whole “how would you like it if I used the wrong pronouns for you” argument totally fails to take into account that the vast majority of people couldn’t give a stuff. If you called me “sir” or “he” I’d possibly raise an eyebrow but otherwise I’d move on with my life and not give it another thought.

To date no one has died from incorrect pronoun use.