Who is watching Doctor Who tonight

[Firefly2009]

And if you've now seen it, what are your thoughts?

I'm predicting I will love it no matter what. But look forward to discussing it.

Ha, yes! We did like that.

Not sure about the wheelchair being too James bond, it was the bullet proof screens out of nothing!

I loved the James Bond wheelchair. I mean if I was part of Unit (I think they were but I was tired) and happened to be in a wheelchair I’d want to be able to defend myself should I come across any bad aliens. That made sense to me.

You’re right about the sonic shields though. That stretched the rules of their own dr who universe. Sonically breaking glass / dissolving cement / scanning things. Makes sense. Creating shields to withstand fire or battle, just doesn’t fit in.

I've woken up more disappointed than I was last night. And like a PP pointed out…doubting if I should let me son watch. If I am going to have to explain some of the stuff the wedged into that story then I don’t want him to. Which sucks as he’s just starting to show interest.

Tuna madras was awful.
Actress with the wheelchair was great- I liked her in years and years, too. Only right that the chief science officer of UNIT gets high tech wheels. The heavenly wheelchair in Good Omens is cool, too.
Donna and DT banter was great, as was Sylvia trying to deny anything strange was happening.

Dr Who has always been camp- I wonder whether some actors struggle with the ‘farce’ style and accidentally go wooden instead. Thinking of the black actor being criticised earlier and some others.

I missed the trans references in the first half (I do puzzles at the same time, and only really listen). The binary/pronouns thing was like a bloody great sledge hammer, and when I looked up there was Rose being so special it saved Donna’s life. That let it go business, and the men business- they really needed to explain that better. They could have saved their sledgehammer and just explained it.

But- it was stylish and sleek and I like that. I also love the lady lizard and her maid. There’s so much narrative space in that dynamic.

Captain Jack- I have a love hate relationship with him. He’s a complete unethical player and that winds me up. I do enjoy the way other characters say ‘stop that!’ at him. I feel the same way. Wind it in, Jack!

I wish I’d read this BBC review of the special before I’d bothered getting my hopes up and wasting my time watching it.

If even a BBC reviewer is calling your special underwhelming, and little more than a poorly disguised delivery system for propaganda… you’re in trouble.

I wouldn’t let dc watch this in a million years. She’s an autistic tomboy and we’ve already had to counteract rubbish she’s heard at school.

I agree it’s a shame that there is no way we could watch this together as a family. I used to watch with my late father all the way up to the end of the Capaldi era. Progression is NOT the same as a a currently very contentious issue being rammed down your throat as a main part of the plot.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20231120-doctor-who-the-star-beast-the-first-60th-anniversary-special-is-a-whimsical-affair

Ooh, rereading Donna’s poignant line…

“something's missing", as she puts it. "Like I had something lovely and it’s gone… some nights I lie in bed thinking 'what have I lost?'"

Millions of pounds and her son, I guess.

I don’t remember Jason. Was he at the wedding?

Overall I enjoyed it. The script was a bit lazy - telling us things instead of showing them. The rip off of ET when Donna’s looking at the toys and the Meep is hidden amongst them.

The binary/non binary bit at the end was a bit clumsy but i assume trying to set up a spin-off for the Rose character. I didn’t think she was a strong enough character for that.

David Tenant was good. I was glad, I found him a bit tired by the end of his last run but he was back in good form.

What on earth was that plot? How is Rose non-binary whilst identifying as a girl? How does that help to 'let it go' (apart from an assumed familiarity with Disney, or something)?

Review here explains a bit more…

Im not impressed though. River Song’s story was so much better!

“Rose Noble is a teenager when Doctor Who's 60th anniversary specials begin, and since 15 years have passed between "Journey's End" and "The Star Beast," Rose must have been conceived around the time of Donna and Shaun's wedding in "The End of Time." This conception was no normal one, however. The Doctor's Time Lord energy that Donna absorbed during "Journey's End" passed down into the unborn child, meaning that Rose, just like her mother, was born part-Time Lord.
Doctor Who's "The Star Beast" tacitly reveals that when Rose was born, Donna and Shaun gave her the name "Jason." At some unspecified point during her upbringing, Rose revealed that she identified as non-binary, and began using she/her pronouns. Rose also chose her own name, unknowingly finding inspiration in Donna's friend and ex-TARDIS companion Rose Tyler. Doctor Who strongly implies that Rose identifying as non-binary is at least partially due to inheriting the Doctor's regeneration energy, since the Doctor is both male and female. Rose's Time Lord side also expressed itself through her creativity, such as the plush monster toys she made to resemble classic Doctor Who villains.”

I wouldn’t let dc watch this in a million years. She’s an autistic tomboy and we’ve already had to counteract rubbish she’s heard at school.

I agree it’s a shame that there is no way we could watch this together as a family. I used to watch with my late father all the way up to the end of the Capaldi era. Progression is NOT the same as a a currently very contentious issue being rammed down your throat as a main part of the plot.*

this. Such a shame. I am so sick of this stuff being blanket bombed everywhere. DD has now bought a binder on the sly, so healthy.
can we not just have a rollicking good adventure without being indoctrinated. All. The . Time.

Actually, I’m confused..
rose is in rl. A male who has had surgery to appear as a girl?
and in dr who is being a male who has become a girl. But is 14 or so.
so you are showing our confused teens that, with surgery, it IS possible to pass as a 14 year old girl. But also a very attractive, cool, impossibly high cheekboned girl.
fuck me.

Yasmin Finney has a keen teenage audience. MNers may not be aware of this but a devoted teenage fan base , courted by Doctor Who , will know Finney from Heartstopper, just as they know Ncuti Gatwa from Sex Education. It's very easy to dismiss Finney as woke casting but the awards for Heartstopper suggest it is shrewd casting.

If the character of Rose had been older I would have agreed with you. But she was not believable as a 13yo. A 16yo maybe. But I thought she was supposed to be a grown up child when she first appeared.

I must have said Tuna Madras out loud three times trying to convince myself she said something else.

I thought she said Chicken Madras.

Trans doesn't mean non binary though. That's the bit that doesn't work. Plus the whole presenting as a 15 year old girl (14 if we build nine months in?) but clearly well into transition.

Exactly. The narrative (comments from Donna’s mum) implied the transition was a recent thing so we’re expected to believe that the glamorous almost-passing individual just magically turned out that way.

It is a lie to the audience of potentially vulnerable teenagers that passing is oh-so easy. Ignoring the fact that the individual concerned was fully made up by professionals, lit in a flattering light and dressed to flatter. Never mind likely years of hormones, voice coaching and probable feminising surgery.

Despite the claims of many, very very few trans people actually pass as the opposite sex. Those that do have usually had large amounts of surgery, as well as photoshop! Face to face it’s not so easy - you can’t disguise height, hand size, hips, etc.

Trying to imply otherwise is a cruel lie.

I agree. I was only half watching but assumed until I came on here that Rose was an adult ~25. Not a younger teenager. I missed the whole Jason/Rose bit until near the end.

As soon as Rose appeared my immediate thought was, that's a bloke with a strong jawline playing a trans young woman. Not convincing as a teenage girl. Then find out it's a 20 year old transwomen playing a 13 year old recently transitioned girl. Like the rest of the programme- it is a fantasy.

Was this person classed as someone who passes?

I thought it was glaringly obvious, it immediately took me out of the story.

Shame, I was hoping to start watching again.

Unfortunately this episode demonstrates what RTD came back to do, and I’m not interested in having my children indoctrinated.

Like others, I already have to work hard and strictly limit internet access to try to protect my dc from this nonsense.

Luckily I became aware of this threat when they were still very young, so have been able to firmly dispel stereotypes about male/female behaviour from the start. I do that because I KNOW I would have fallen prey to this social contagion when I was a teenager.

I also have autism, and due to that never felt like ‘one of the girls’. It would have been so tempting to be offered access to a social group that had a strong identity, social popularity and a rule book. Which also offered to wrongly but simply explain why I felt so isolated, uncomfortable in my body and ‘othered’.

Adding, I don't think the BBC want adults viewing this anymore. They want kids and young adults - they want to indoctrinate them rather than entertain. Seems to be working.

I’ve been watching Dr Who since the William Hartnell days. I think this episode has cured my addiction.

@Kitanai I said “almost passing” because there were some people on the thread who said they hadn’t noticed. Personally my senses were tingling after a minute or so and having not heard of Yazmin I did a quick Google where the images that popped up confirmed my suspicions- like I said, it’s easy to pass when you’ve got an entire make up/lighting/wardrobe department behind you.

Well we liked it. DC is nine and hasn’t watched Doctor Who before as he found it too scary etc

Was funny though as he was really upset about the poor meep and then screaming 😱 oh no mummy the meep is evil 😂😂😂😆we liked the pronouns bit and took it very tongue in cheek.

But my kids says that dogs don’t ask what biological sex the other dog is they just stick their nose in the bums and at least we don’t do that as humans.

I thought it was all rather fun. Once he got to terms with the Meep’s teeth he rather enjoyed it being sentenced and buggered into space.

I loved DT running around the tardis and CT’s cup of tea! 😂all jolly good nonsense.

Rose etc will all be slightly minor characters and I loved the humour and the acknowledgment that Rose couldn’t act etc

normally we have Harrison Ford aged 80 seducing young female actors aged 20 without an eye grow being raised so I don’t care about the age of Rose’s actor in real life it was all designed to be tongue in cheek. Likewise we identify DT as male where as I’m not sure a time lord has a sex. 😂it’s a tv show and was fun!

But my kids says that dogs don’t ask what biological sex the other dog is they just stick their nose in the bums and at least we don’t do that as humans.

Eh?

Pretty sure dogs can tell at a glance, exactly the same way humans can.