Panorama Private ADHD clinics exposed

[Youdoyoubabe]

Nothing surprising there really but good to highlight it on national television. Everyone has some characteristics of ADHD.

No the psychologist lady was from this clinic
harleypsychiatrists.co.uk/meet-the-team/#

I can see the psychiatrist guy who did the prescription afterwards on there but I think the psychologist lady has been taken off (Olga something).

I find that as time is going on I am feeling increasingly upset about this Panorama. There is so much wrong with what has happened here. I think I'm going to join those submitting a complaint but I'm finding it hard to knuckle down and do.

She really did. It was as if she just got herself out of bed, took the zoom call and then went back to bed. She was so disinterested,looked and sounded unprofessional.

But also, the NHS isn’t all knowing and omnipotent.
Since there’s no clinical test for adhd it is possible for the nhs not to diagnose someone who has adhd, especially when clinicians have made us aware that due to funding concerns they are sometimes under pressure to under diagnose

Watch the psychiatrist try to walk back the damage https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/17/nhs-psychiatrist-adhd-underdiagnosis

Love that he is suggesting a 3 month target for ADHD and Autism assessment. Obviously this would be great, but where the fuck does he think the resources for these assessments are going to come from? The private sector are already providing some NHS appointments and look at the waiting lists.

I would be happier to see more information about what a good assessment looks like.

FWIW my DH has been diagnosed privately and is medicated. His assessment included
Free Pre-screening - the clinic don't see people if they don't think they can help.
Pre-assessment forms. History and depression score from DH, ADHD assessments from DH, BIL (re childhood) and myself, an online DIVA assessment with 2 clinicians, Qb test, recording of height, weight, pulse and blood pressure.
Following assessment he was given his diagnosis along with advice about managing the condition. The medication was discussed at a separate appointment after a cooling off period.

There are good clinics out there. What a shame panorama don't want to tell that story.

Also, really importantly, the nhs psychiatrist is NOT saying there’s an epidemic of over diagnosis, but that there is a problem with chronic nhs underfunding

I agree with you when you 'the NHS isn't all knowing and omnipotent' as I believe there are very good clinicians practicing privately - and mainly trained by the NHS. My primary concern in this debate is the irresponsible clinicians who are working privately and are handing out diagnoses and prescriptions fuelled by making money and acting without caution.

You refer to clinicians making you aware that they are under pressure not to diagnose. I can categorically say that in the CAMHS clinics where I have worked this is NOT the case -but of course I don't know the custom and practice of all clinics. I strongly suggest that you take this information and report it to the Chief Executive of the relevant NHS trust as it is absolutely unethical!

The wider debate is that CAMHS services are over stretched and under resourced. We have lost so many excellent clinicians due to Brexit, the pressure of work etc., that we can't meet the needs of the children and families in our communities. We want to, but it's impossible.....it is very sad and clinicians are frustrated but doing their best in the circumstances.

The problem is, neither you nor anyone else is able to suggest an alternative.

There’s no room at CAMHS.
You don’t think private clinics this week, this month, should continue diagnosing as they are not sufficiently well supervised.
So what should we do with all the people who actually do have adhd, whose lives and mental health are in tatters, and who need medication now? Ignore them?
Leave them to ruin their families, become a burden on the nhs, be wrongly prescribed antidepressants by the nhs (which incidentally is misdiagnosis and misprescribing that noone seems to care about), become suicidal?
Literally what is your suggested immediate solution?

be wrongly prescribed antidepressants by the nhs (which incidentally is misdiagnosis and misprescribing that noone seems to care about)

I’ve been complaining about my inability to focus for years and all I received was a prescription for antidepressants and lurasidone, an antipsychotic that supposedly helps cognition. All it did was affect my balance and cause akathisia. I’ve been prescribed pretty much every antipsychotic there is, even newer, experimental antipsychotics. I’ve been prescribed stuff that’s made me drool, things that have caused an inability to lift my feet leading me to shuffle instead of walk, stuff that’s given me a tremor and made my eyes move involuntarily. I’ve even been prescribed electro-convulsive therapy. And yet I’ve never actually been psychotic.

No psychiatrist has thought twice about prescribing me these things, about turning me into a human Guinea pig in an attempt to lift my ‘treatment-resistant depression’. But when it comes to a medication for ADHD it’s ‘oh no, we can’t prescribe you that, you will need to see a specialist’.

Fair enough, but my god the irony and hypocrisy of it all.

It’s never occurred to them that my depression is caused, or at the very least exacerbated, by my inability to hold down a job or complete a degree due to my total lack of focus and executive functioning. It’s made me feel totally worthless as a person, despite feeling I have so much to give, but they don’t care.

I’m really concerned the ADHD assessors are going to take one look at my MH history and dismiss me on the spot, that they’ll tell me all of my issues stem from an intrinsic mental illness. I just hope they can see past it.

Thanks for sharing

Stumulant meds will increase focus, motivation, productivity, energy, endurance and on and on in virtually everyone.

That's precisely why they're controlled drugs. They are drugs that are open to abuse and diversion because of the benefits.

It's a criminal offence to possess them without a prescription.

They're banned drugs in competitive sports unless you go to the governing body with evidence of diagnosis and prescription. Because they enhance performance..

@MerlinBirds It was the received wisdom, taught by experts, 20 years ago that amphetamine-based medications that improve focus and productivity for kids with ADHD would not do the same for kids who do not have ADHD. I was taught this doing a DipEd at the best uni in my state, my lecturer was one of the county's leading experts in researching education for kids with ADHD, and all the papers and books I read on the topic at the time concurred.

It seems ridiculous now that I believed it. But it is a comforting belief - if the drugs are helping, they must be needed, and all the nasty side effects are worth it.

I must admit to being quite shocked at the number of people who are certain not only what they, or their child, meet the diagnostic criteria for, but also what treatment is necessary.

@HairyKitty "The problem is, neither you nor anyone else is able to suggest an alternative.
There’s no room at CAHMS.
...
Literally what is your suggested immediate solution?"

If you're facing this crazy long wait to get a public psychiatric assessment for ADHD I would suggest using the thousands of pounds a private diagnosis would cost to get a good (paediatric / educational / adult) psyologist, OT, any other modality to address the specific symptoms you or your child is suffering with. The drugs aren't a cure-all, and might not be right for you / your child anyway, so get right onto addressing the problems that you can see need addressing while you wait for an assessment into whether or not low doses of amphetamine-based meds are also needed. I'm in Australia, so I might be suggesting something impossible in the UK. It would be expensive here, but doable.

Indeed. It's clearly a legitimate diagnosis but I think it was so controversial to many that the very well-meaning experts went out of their way to suggest, which was not scientifically accurate, that a 'test' for ADHD was if you felt better and did better on meds then it proves you have ADHD.

Which not only ignored the fact that most people experience benefits from stimulants, but also threw the people with ADHD with e.g severe anxiety, underlying trauma or just an adverse reaction to the meds under the bus if they were reporting it made them feel shit or made their symptoms worse. As it was then assumed they didn't have ADHD.

For a long time, this misinformation has been spread and continues to be spread as we see on this thread because it backs up the idea that there is no benefit from ADHD diagnosis or treatment for people who don't have ADHD so everyone seeking a diagnosis and treatment must have ADHD otherwise they wouldn't bother and/or spend money on pursuing the diagnosis.

When the benefits can be numerous with meds being a big one.

It also completely ignores in the last few years particularly, the online 'fad' of ADHD. That's not dismissing ADHD as a fad as it is not, but with 400 million hashtags on TikTok being ADHD, with so much of the contenr being misinformation and that contributing to an over 400% increase of ADHD referrals in the UK and God knows how many globally; it cannot be denied that social media is contributing to people seeking an ADHD diagnosis.

And given how much big pharma profits particularly from ADHD meds, its not being a tin-foil wearer to suggest that is also playing a part.

I’ve got my son booked in at a private clinic to be assessed. I don’t want him on the stimulant medication if it is found that he has ADHD. The only reason he’s booked in is because he has severe sleep issues and the doctors also suspect he has ADHD. Due to them suspecting he has ADHD, they won’t investigate his sleep issues until he’s been assessed. He’s never slept through the night and being in full time school, he now is visibly overtired yet still runs round like he’s got a motor hidden somewhere. I’m hoping that once we have had the assessment, the nhs doctors can investigate into the suspected primary sleep disorder and treat it

You don't have to use stimulant medication is you are against it. There is non-stimulant meds, Strattera in one example. And some families use mediations that aid sleep as that is their biggest problem. A diagnosis helps with support in school and at exam times. And it can make a child with ADHD feel better about themselves as they can begin to understand what makes them different from some other children.

@Faythiel I had a child who saw was seen by CAHMs for years and they couldn’t solve their sleep problems which were seriously affecting his behaviour at school. A visit to a paediatrician however for another matter resulted in him being prescribed melatonin for his sleep problems. It worked very effectively.
whilst this may not be the solution for your child of course it seemed to be that CAHMs therapists and psychologists wouldn’t even mention the possibility that melatonin would help. Whereas to the paediatrician it was their first thought when sleep issues were mentioned.

Thanks @DontGetEvenGetEverything That was a useful post which helped answer my earlier question. There seems to be a lack of knowledge among parents that many/most of these ‘meds’ are amphetamine based.
My concern was that once a diagnosis of ADHD was made then there would be pressure from school to medicate.

@notanicepersonapparently , may I ask why you don't want medication for him? (I assume your decision is based on some deep research on this?)

@Faythiel , sorry I asked the wrong poster. May I ask why you don't want your son try stimulant?

How old is he?

I feel your pain... Have to have a conversation with school about a residential about it.

When we say 'he doesn't sleep' people don't believe us / understand what we are saying until they see it first hand...

Most of the stimulant meds prescribed are not amphetamine based but they have a similar effect on the brain.

Methylphenidate which is the base of Concerta, Equasym, Ritalin for example is not amphetamine based.

Elvanse, vyvanse and Adderal are amphetamine based.

A woman has posted on FB how she was exploited by the Panorama journalist and misled over their intentions for the programme and how she now feels so guilty for how this is already impacting on women and blocking shared care arrangements as well as making others question their ADHD diagnosis.

I can't verify whether it's genuine but it's being widely shared and doesn't look good.

The whole programme has a bad smell trailing after it.

Why?

People working in ADHD have been saying this is an issue for years. That was why the programme was made, there were lots of people whistle blowing and complaining who were being otherwise brushed off or ignored.

It's not a conspiracy. It's been happening.

Loads of people here saying it's biased and not reflective of the reality of seeking an ADHD diagnosis and how there's no BBC programming that is supporting of ADHD when a quick Google will tell you ADHD education programmes have been on the BBC since 2007 or earlier

Did you think all the previous panorama and BBC programmes about the legitimacy of ADHD were untrue? There are very many. Have a look.

When panorama publicly exposed abuse at Winterborne View after years of individuals reporting it did you think that wasn't true either?

Or when G4S was exposed by Panorama as young offenders being abused. were you online saying how shit the journalism was?

In both counts, there were representatives of those institutions/businesses where workers were actually criminally convicted of abuse but said "that did not reflect the majority of their workers"

Panorama is investigative journalism when many proffesional people have expressed concern but seemingly not listened to.

And the concerns were proven.