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Telly addicts

MH370: The Plane That Disappeared (Netflix)

331 replies

XelaM · 09/03/2023 15:06

Has anyone seen this new Netflix documentary about MH370?

It's just unbelievable that in our time a passenger plane can just disappear without a trace.

I find the conspiracy theories in that documentary totally bizarre, but I also feel very sorry for the pilot's family who has effectively been scapegoated without any real evidence that he brought the plane down. If it was a murder-suicide why would he fly for another 8 hours instead of just crashing into the ocean where he was? It makes no sense. It's also an insane coincidence that two of Malaysian Airlines planes suffered tragedies in the space of just a few months in 2014 - nothing to do with any mechanical issues on the planes.

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FloorWipes · 22/03/2023 19:44

I'm working my way through the podcast "The Search for MH370: Deepest Dive". In fact Jeff Wise and Ghyslain Wattrelos are also included and treated quite sympathetically as in the Netflix doc, which I wasn't expecting.

FloorWipes · 23/03/2023 11:17

Apologies, the following is really quite disturbing content, but then the whole case is very disturbing.

Assuming the pilot were to have done it, has anyone seen a good write up of the motive and psychological profile? I'm struggling to find anything credible or in depth.

I have seen a number of media reports suggesting that there was evidence of his being "clinically depressed". However, in the podcast above, the psychologist suggests that his behaviour was not very consistent with depression because of his high level ability to plan and act. She suggests a personality disorder, which became increasingly entrenched due to other influences in his life over this period. Now I hope it goes without saying that neither depression nor personality disorder is generally associated with mass murder!!! so these explanations alone are very insufficient. But I suppose it could be that as a somewhat depressed narcissist, he saw little point in living and little regard for others, but remained motivated to demonstrate his intelligence and ability. It seems possible but quite far fetched, like everything else in this story.

Asides from any psychiatric issue, on the practical motive side, a lot has been written about the breakdown of his marriage, but I'm not aware of any direct line to this event, other than through an overall contribution to his mental state. Also, the fact that his political idol was sentenced to prison the day before is interesting, although alone doesn't provide motivation for the long term planning of this act. However, the wider political context could be relevant. I would like to know more about any ways in which these factors - or others - could have contributed in a specific way. For example, was this an attempt to specifically embarrass the Malaysian military (and is that also consistent with the mystery aspect, and the lack of any political statement made.)

On the other hand, I won't go into the evidence presented of the pilot's positive psychological well-being as I think the consensus assumes this is unreliable due to being part of a cover up. (Wherever we look, there needs to be a cover up).

I think it's interesting that as people examine this case, the mind of the pilot is treated as the black box that we don't really need to explain at a specific level, unlike the technical aspects of the plane. I don't know if people are any less predictable than a 777. For me personally, unless I can come to a psychological explanation that ties ends together, this really weighs on my mind. People do heinous things, and they are always on some level baffling in the sense that most people wouldn't do them, but to be honest I don't think they are usually as baffling as this, and they do make sense in context (on a psychological level such as a long history of sociopathic behaviour or on an environmental level such as a war). Perhaps the issue is that we are lacking context for this.

I'm not saying that this is in any way consistent with the facts of the case so the following is only by way of example. So, I would find it more believable, for example, to suppose that a slow unnoticed cabin depressurisation led to hypoxia in all on board including the pilot, who subsequently made poor hypoxia-induced decisions that led to the deaths of passengers. Returning to normal consciousness, his overwhelming shame and guilt led him to disappear the plane so that no one could know what he had done. There I have a psychological explanation of purposeful disappearance that I can understand.

Anyway, if anyone does have any in depth write ups on the psychological angle, I would be keen to read them.

notimagain · 23/03/2023 15:25

@FloorWipes

(Must admit I thought I'd responded to your above but no sign of the reply, so here goes again - which hopefully won't regenerate my previous efforts from the depths ):

Can I just have another gripe about the use of "the pilot" - it's not just you, is something that has dogged this discussion - it's really important to have any real hope of understanding what might have gone on on board to recognise there were two fully qualified, fully licenced, 777 rated pilots on that flight, albeit with different experience levels, which one do you mean?

"I would find it more believable, for example, to suppose that a slow unnoticed cabin depressurisation led to hypoxia in all on board including the pilot, who subsequently made poor hypoxia-induced decisions that led to the deaths of passengers."

Unlike some older types the 777 is pretty well set up with (almost) idiot proof alerting systems to cater for things like depressurisation, from memory you get a "Cabin Altitude" warning if the cabin altitude rises into the low teens, so well below any altitude where significant hypoxia would become an issue. At which points as well as the warning on the flight deck masks and other warnings/ are would drop automatically, The pilots (2) would have their procedures and Cabin Crew would take their actions so it's not really likely that somehow only the captain would be left to sort things out.

The last totally horrific depressurisation accident was Helios 522 and that as very much a different scenario with a much older system, and the crew were "out" and not talking to ATC by top of climb..from communications we know that a wasn't the case on MH.

As for "in depth write ups on the psychological angle, "....I think you will struggle to find anything. TBH there's always been a feeling that some aspects of, for want of a better phrase, the domestic/personal lives side of some individuals in Malaysia was either never fully investigated or any findings were never revealed.

If people are looking for a mystery that's probably the place to look, not at the mechanics of how this disappearance was engineered.

SheilaFentiman · 23/03/2023 15:31

I think the deliberate switch off of the transponder at the point of ATC handover tells against a “ slow depressurisation” (and I take @notimagain ’s expertise as to why this plane shouldn’t do that)

The last voice contact was only a minute or two before.

FloorWipes · 23/03/2023 15:36

Thanks @notimagain

I mean Captain Zaharie.

I remember the Helios crash quite well as I was in that part of the world. Very grim. It is interesting to hear your explanation about the altitude warnings (people are suggesting they failed in this case, but I'm sure you'll know why that's not possible) as I said before I'm not really suggesting that this is what happened - just that a story like this feels more psychologically believable.

I agree that the core of the "mystery" may indeed be what led a person do to such a thing. But it truly is a mystery, and even proponents of theory offer only the most skeletal of explanations. It would be good to see something a bit better. After all, marriages fail every day, political upheaval is common, depression is everywhere, personality disorder is as well though awareness may not be so high - but calculated mass murder is rare.

notimagain · 23/03/2023 16:02

@FloorWipes

I agree that the core of the "mystery" may indeed be what led a person do to such a thing.

Absolutely 100% agree.

As for "But it truly is a mystery, and even proponents of theory offer only the most skeletal of explanations"

Talk to probably 99.9% of pilots flying at airline level and they'll give you a very short list of options as to the probable "who", without having to call upon deeper forces or external agencies.

If you then decided to dig further and asked a large number of 777 type rated pilots to explain OK, "how"? you'll probably find 99.99% of them will give you a very similar, very concise, far from skeletal explanation of the steps needed to replicate this disappearance.

SheilaFentiman · 23/03/2023 16:28

As dear Lord Peter Wimsey says: when you know how, you know who.

We do know how, pretty much, and therefore we know who, down to two possibilities.

SheilaFentiman · 23/03/2023 16:36

Calculated mass murder is hard. There are several mass shootings per decade in the US, but because of the nature of a gun only impacting one bullet at a time, fatalities tend to be below 100 even if more are injured.

other mass murders are terrorist attacks - 9/11, 7/7 etc.

Crashing and/or depressurising a plane may well be the most “efficient” way to commit such a crime.

My point is: it’s partly rare because it’s very difficult and only people with certain skills or connections (eg bomb making) can do it. The urge may not be as rare.

FloorWipes · 23/03/2023 16:47

Ok but terrorist attacks have a really clear explanation, for example. We understand quite well how people get radicalized and the psychological and social systems involved there.

I haven't examined every mass shooting, but from what I do know, they are generally similar - some would probably be better classed as terrorism, some are related to specific grudges held, some are a result of more psychotic style events etc.

Here we really haven't gotten to the bottom of it at all.

SheilaFentiman · 23/03/2023 17:34

Sure. But break down all crimes into means/motive/opportunity. Lots of people may have a motive but they never get means or opportunity, so nothing happens except dark thoughts.

Here there are two people with means and opportunity. We don’t know enough to say if they had motive, but no one else on the plane had means and opportunity. So we assume one had a motive, even if it’s one that hasn’t been uncovered, or was covered up, or was too recent to leave evidence.

That, to me, is less far fetched than it not being a deliberate act by one of the people with means and opportunity

FloorWipes · 23/03/2023 18:34

I'm not saying a pilot didn't do it. I'm just saying why he would do it remains very unexplained and unsatisfying. It might be less far fetched than the alternative but it is still far fetched, leaving a lot of people struggling to believe it.

surrenderdorothy · 23/03/2023 22:54

I expect it was a similar mindset to a family annihilator - a combination of despair and vengeance. I can't get into the mind of a family annihilator and I wouldn't expect myself to be able to get into the mind of a pilot who would murder his crew and passengers while killing himself, but there have been enough suggestions of what had recently gone wrong in the main pilot's life to make him a plausible suspect, motive-wise, and means and opportunity have been explained in detail in this thread by those with first-hand experience of planes and flying.

FloorWipes · 23/03/2023 23:36

But a family annihilator has a specific vengeance against his family, so again it isn't the same and it isn't nearly as well explained as that.

surrenderdorothy · 23/03/2023 23:51

I am just suggesting the similarity of emotional component involved. Whatever feelings boiled to the surface and took over, there has been enough to my mind suggested that I can understand how this may have occurred. It is impossible to put myself into that mindspace, but every day we see people boil over into rage and vengeance - whether it be an incel, a school shooter, a family annihilator, someone driving a car into a group of pedestrians.

I think downing a plane is a vengeful act. Incomprehensible, but explicable.

SheilaFentiman · 27/03/2023 18:56

I finally finished watching it. Wow, that Florence lady was pretty bonkers.

ageingdisgracefully · 27/03/2023 19:38

That Florence lady has written a book about Mh370. I was going to buy it; glad I didn't!

User339406 · 27/03/2023 21:05

I've been listening to the audible podcast Deepest Dive. I've just listened to the episode about the guy finding the debris on the beach. I found that quite upsetting because he was suggesting that he'd found personal effects, luggage, potentially belonging to passengers. But there didn't seem to have been any great follow up on this. Is it true that no "official" search around the area has was finding all this stuff was carried out? Did he (I've forgotten his name) really hand these potential personal effects over to authorities and they haven't done anything with them? I find that really quite sad, if my person was missing I would want something of theirs to be treated with respect and returned to their family if at all possible.

I realise someone's handbag is not very important in the grand scheme of things but if it was my dad or my wife or child it would be so important to me. A tangible link to them, and maybe proof of a sort that they are truly dead. I don't know.

SheilaFentiman · 27/03/2023 21:47

@User339406 i haven’t listened to the podcast, but do you mean Blaine?

SheilaFentiman · 27/03/2023 21:51

I would have thought that something like a handbag would have been very damaged and impossible to link to any passenger as (opposed to being washed off a ship or whatever)

FloorWipes · 27/03/2023 21:53

I finally finished watching it. Wow, that Florence lady was pretty bonkers.

See while I do think she's wrong, I don't know if I particularly think she is bonkers. I'm reading the book and it's pretty interesting so far in terms of charting how the media coverage unfolded over time, how the investigation was run in the early stages and also providing some political context. Obviously I'm treating the claims with scepticism but I've not actually reached the conspiracy part as yet.

I found that quite upsetting because he was suggesting that he'd found personal effects, luggage, potentially belonging to passengers. But there didn't seem to have been any great follow up on this.

I assume you mean Blaine Gibson. It's hard to get very clear information on this but I think it's true that there was no official search for coastal debris and I haven't seen anything to suggest that any items have been traced to specific passengers, but I suppose that might just not have been made public. Disregarding conspiracy, the overall investigation has seemed poorly coordinated in some ways!

User339406 · 27/03/2023 21:55

Blaine. That's the guy.

He was talking about trying to match bags with cctv of passengers boarding the plane. Maybe it was all a load of exaggeration but it was a reminder that there were actual people on the plane, these small human things. So much of the discussion is so technical. I would just hope that my people did pass out quickly and didn't know what was going to happen to them. I hope they were not frightened for too long.

SheilaFentiman · 27/03/2023 22:01

“I think it's true that there was no official search for coastal debris”

I think that is correct. But… what would be the purpose of such a search? Enough pieces have washed up and been found to identify that MH370 did go south, and they were found over a long period of time and on various bits of coast. I’m not sure that any one location or time period could be identified as the right search locus.

notimagain · 27/03/2023 22:17

the overall investigation has seemed poorly coordinated in some ways!

Can I ask if that was the impression given by the documentaries or is it based on the contents the two main reports (links below)?

<a class="break-all" href="https://reports.aviation-safety.net/2014/20140308-0_B772_9M-MRO.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://reports.aviation-safety.net/2014/20140308-0_B772_9M-MRO.pdf</a>

https://apo.org.au/sites/default/files/resource-files/2017-10/apo-nid112656.pdf

https://reports.aviation-safety.net/2014/20140308-0_B772_9M-MRO.pdf

FloorWipes · 27/03/2023 22:21

Enough pieces have washed up and been found to identify that MH370 did go south, and they were found over a long period of time and on various bits of coast.

In a normal crash investigation, from what I can tell, they seem to try to find everything they can, as everything can provide information, and you don't know what information it will provide until you find it. This isn't something that is usually left to chance and to members of the public (I'm aware of examples where the public have made it difficult for investigators). But perhaps in this case it was too difficult and expensive? I'm not sure. It wouldn't have been more expensive than the ocean search surely.

FloorWipes · 27/03/2023 22:23

the overall investigation has seemed poorly coordinated in some ways!

Definitely partly based on the reports! Also various articles and especially on the podcast. The Netflix documentary didn't really cover that aspect at all did it?

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