MH370: The Plane That Disappeared (Netflix)

[XelaM]

Has anyone seen this new Netflix documentary about MH370?

It's just unbelievable that in our time a passenger plane can just disappear without a trace.

I find the conspiracy theories in that documentary totally bizarre, but I also feel very sorry for the pilot's family who has effectively been scapegoated without any real evidence that he brought the plane down. If it was a murder-suicide why would he fly for another 8 hours instead of just crashing into the ocean where he was? It makes no sense. It's also an insane coincidence that two of Malaysian Airlines planes suffered tragedies in the space of just a few months in 2014 - nothing to do with any mechanical issues on the planes.

[SheilaFentiman]

@FloorWipes thank you for replying.

I’m not sure it is possible to make it impossible, without the law of unintended consequences biting. Eg requiring two people to switch off comms might be problematic if one was incapacitated and there was an electrical fire.

And perhaps some recommendations wouldn’t be made public for security reasons anyway.

[notimagain]

@FloorWipes

My impression is that there has not been sufficient emphasis on making it impossible for this to happen again, and all the necessary angles of investigation to support that.

The work didn't end with the investigation being published, a whole raft of work has gone on that I guess won't interest Netflix or the MSM but it does makes the technical press..

A while back I mentioned ICAO had increased the tracking requirements (the plan gets a mention at the end of the Safety report) and that was introduced where I was working before retirement...that's in the public domain (I put up a link a while back).

I'm know some other things have been done that rightly fall into the category "must not be talked about".

There's also an issue that some solutions to a particular problem that seem obvious to the general public having seen a TV documentary can actually increase the risks to flights from other threats. Many changes need a lot of analysis and then development before being introduced.

[FloorWipes]

I am aware of the ICAO requirements and I saw what you posted previously.

Many changes need a lot of analysis and then development before being introduced.
Of course. I'm not involved in aviation but I am involved in a bit of systems design, so I have an applied understanding of this at a some level.

I would love to know what must not be talked about of course. I realise it's impossible for me to be in possession of all the facts or even close to it so at the end of the day I am just forming a sort of layman's educated guess on this with the small amount of time I have available.

However I'm also not just going to assume that this has all been sorted by the smart people in a room somewhere as that's so often sadly not the case.

[notimagain]

@FloorWipes

I think one issue here is just maybe people don't really understand the function of these types of enquiries...there's maybe a couple of major points around this investigation that perhaps the documentaries perhaps don't make clear.

Firstly the enquiries themselves are generally are not going to come up with very detailed technical solutions - if you go to the back of the written report and look at findings, recommendations you'll see lots of comments similar to "consider enhancing", "recommending", "should give serious consideration" "should enhance".

That's fairly standard aviation enquiry talk - the team rarely say "fix it by installing XXX device " or "solve the problem by utilising YYY".......the actual technical solutions generally get sorted out post the report by the boffins and managers down stream of the enquiry at the airlines, ICAO, Boeing etc.

Also unlike the media the enquiry team are really supposed to try very hard not to drift into speculation, especially when it comes to exact cause. Doing that leads to a danger of solutions being recommended that potentially don't fix the problem that really caused the accident.

It's not unknown for investigators to end up with a conclusion of "cause unknown" if they had little evidence to work with (which TBF was more common years back in the days before modern Flight Recorders).

Personally I think the aviation/technical side of the report is probably as good as we were going to get given the lack of hard data that was available.

[SheilaFentiman]

I guess it would be difficult too for any Mh370 report to conclude it was murder-suicide by one or both of the flight crew, because I assume that would require a “beyond reasonable doubt” standard rather than a “probabilities strongly point that way” standard

[notimagain]

@SheilaFentiman

I guess it would be difficult too for any Mh370 report to conclude it was murder-suicide by one or both of the flight crew, because I assume that would require a “beyond reasonable doubt” standard rather than a “probabilities strongly point that way” standard

Page xx of the safety report:

Objective:

"The sole objective of the investigation of an accident or incident shall be the prevention of accidents and incidents. It is not the purpose of this activity to apportion blame or liability"

[SheilaFentiman]

Thanks!

[SheilaFentiman]

Now listening to the Deepest Dive podcast which is much higher quality than the Netflix!

[Trying2bemum]

@notimagain

As @FloorWipes says that hatch is no real mystery, the carpet section over it is hidden in full view and it's rare but not that unknown for it to be open (but it has to be carefully guarded to avoid people falling down it) whilst the aircraft is on the ground) - engineers needed to access it on occasions.

Most aircliners have something similar, and no you can't fly the aircraft from down there, certainly not a 777.

I didn’t say you could fly the ac from there! Haha as if. My husband flies this for a living! Perhaps someone else said it and you’re referring to their post

[SheilaFentiman]

@Trying2bemum

I didn’t say you could fly the ac from there! Haha as if. My husband flies this for a living! Perhaps someone else said it and you’re referring to their post

The “documentary” implies that flying the plane from there is doable!

[Trying2bemum]

@SheilaFentiman

The “documentary” implies that flying the plane from there is doable!

Oh! Wonder what they mean by “fly”. Will keep watching and ask my DH more about this part as I don’t fully understand it.

[notimagain]

@Trying2bemum

Oh! Wonder what they mean by “fly”. Will keep watching and ask my DH more about this part as I don’t fully understand it.

Some have suggested you can actually get into the Main Equipment Centre and once down there somehow direct the aircraft around the sky.

I think the opinion of those who know the set up (including some people at Boeing) is doing that is not possible, though you could certainly disable some systems by pulling circuit breakers.

BTW "My husband is a 777 pilot with British Airways.": if your DH was on the fleet pre-Covid days give him a wave from me, we may have flown together..

[SheilaFentiman]

The doc shows some dude climbing into the hatch and plugging in his laptop to take control of the steering/flight path.

it looked extremely unlikely to me, like Goldblum taking down the aliens in Independence Day! And it’s one thing to broadcast crazy theories, but showing something that isn’t actually possible is pretty irresponsible of Netflix IMO.

[notimagain]

@SheilaFentiman

The doc shows some dude climbing into the hatch and plugging in his laptop to take control of the steering/flight path.

it looked extremely unlikely to me, like Goldblum taking down the aliens in Independence Day! And it’s one thing to broadcast crazy theories, but showing something that isn’t actually possible is pretty irresponsible of Netflix IMO.

I'm sure it's possible to supposedly demo pretty much anything for the TV given unlimited time and unhindered access.

On a real aircraft in flight I suspect trying that with passengers, crew and the flight crew secured away very probably might not work out as per the demo quite as well as advertised.

[SheilaFentiman]

Well, yeah, it’s unclear how said dude was supposed to have done this without being spotted or stopped!

[notimagain]

The other problem with this theory is the timescale...especially if you insist flight crew weren't involved...

I'd have to look at the report again but as I recall it at handover the aircraft appeared to be operating normally, with the captain operating the radios (the "good night" call)...no mention of there being problems on board.

Just two minutes later the aircraft transponder is off and it is in a tight turn, beyond the capabilities of the autopilot but within the capabilities of a MH trained pilot (according to the report).

Now you either go with the theory that in a period of less than two minutes "somebody" was able to get from their seat, into the Main Equipment Centre, pull some circuit breakers, probably unscrew/unlatch panels to plug in some magic box that allows access to the full flight control system. They would also have to access systems that give attitude and other flight path info to allow the turn to be flown......oh and also stop the crew from communicating they has a problem with ATC.

Or you go with the theory that in under two minutes somebody on the flight deck turned the transponder off and disengaged the autopilot by pressing one button and "hand flew" the aircraft around the turn...

[SheilaFentiman]

Very good point on the timing

[FloorWipes]

Now you either go with the theory that in a period of less than two minutes "somebody" was able to get from their seat, into the Main Equipment Centre, pull some circuit breakers, probably unscrew/unlatch panels to plug in some magic box that allows access to the full flight control system. They would also have to access systems that give attitude and other flight path info to allow the turn to be flown......oh and also stop the crew from communicating they has a problem with ATC

Not sure it matters because I think we all agree this didn't happen, but according to this theory the person doesn't leave their seat at the same time as "Good Night Malaysia 370" to get to the hatch. They are already in the hatch with it closed again, watching the aircraft position and waiting for the handover point in order to turn off the comms and take control. They got there earlier under cover of a commotion. Not my theory, but that's the theory.

[notimagain]

@Floorwipes.

 ...but according to this theory the person doesn't leave their seat at the same time as "Good Night Malaysia 370" to get to the hatch. They are already in the hatch with it closed again, watching the aircraft position and waiting for the handover point in order to turn off the comms and take control. They got there earlier under cover of a commotion...

Errr...yep.....right...🙄that's serious tinfoil hat stuff and there are so many objections to that cunning plan I don't know where to begin with that so won't...

 Not my theory,...Really glad you said that..🙂

[FloorWipes]

@notimagain At this point I think you may as well watch the Netflix show 😂

[SheilaFentiman]

@FloorWipes I would fear for @notimagain ’s TV and what might be thrown at it 😄

[notimagain]

Fortunately unless/until I sign up for Netflix the TV is safe..😬

[FloorWipes]

Well I’ve just uncovered a 3 part Channel 5 documentary that has almost the same cast of characters! I watched part 1.

[XelaM]

@notimagain

@Floorwipes.

 ...but according to this theory the person doesn't leave their seat at the same time as "Good Night Malaysia 370" to get to the hatch. They are already in the hatch with it closed again, watching the aircraft position and waiting for the handover point in order to turn off the comms and take control. They got there earlier under cover of a commotion...

Errr...yep.....right...🙄that's serious tinfoil hat stuff and there are so many objections to that cunning plan I don't know where to begin with that so won't...

 Not my theory,...Really glad you said that..🙂

The hatch thing is so bizarre. Even if some whizz got into a hatch and disabled all the controls, they still wouldn't be able to fly the plane and make a turn whilst sitting in the hatch (in full view of the crew)

[notimagain]

@XelaM

Even if some whizz got into a hatch and disabled all the controls, they still wouldn't be able to fly the plane and make a turn whilst sitting in the hatch (in full view of the crew)

Leaving aside the actual practicality of interfering with the electronics and just addressing the point of access - from a volume POV whilst the compartment isn't that roomy there is certainly enough space to get entirely into the compartment itself.

However actually getting in isn't just a case of turning a little door handle, nipping quickly through the hatch and swinging it smartly shut behind you...

If that theory really does involve some sort of team operation to distract everybody in the cabin IMO you'd need a commotion on the scale of a Parisian riot😱to misdirect attention long enough to actually get a person and any hypothetical equipment in and then cover your tracks..