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Mayflies

114 replies

ToooOldForThis · 27/12/2022 22:57

Has anyone watched this tonight? I loved the book so much and was actually nervous about how well the adaptation would be done! Just watched part 1 and dying to discuss!

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Piggywaspushed · 30/12/2022 07:52

I didn't enjoy this and I know that sounds bad for something so earnest.

But I did find the teenage scenes tiresome - I have read quite a lot of books (often by men) which have teenage years in them and find it so tiresome. Teenagers don't speak to each other in the deep earnest way these authors believe they did. Boys didn't kiss each other and hug in the 80s and the sun didn't always shine in Ayrshire. But I get that this is to create nostalgia. But then I felt we knew far too little about them all as teenagers. What did Noodles hate about his parents? Why exactly did Tully struggle with his dad? We needed more of that. Were there no girls or girlfriends in their teenage years? I haven't read the book but assume it is more detailed on these things and on the other members of the group, who I didn't care one tiny bit about. But I felt it was one of those male nostalgia genre things that pushes women to the periphery, sorry to say. And, in this case, only existing as suffering spouses to be ignored and upset in later life (and in the 80s - see Tully's mum).

On the subject of ages, I found the ages of the cast troublesome , too, because it meant it was unclear to me how much later this was. Iona looked young, but we knew nothing at all about their relationship , who she was , what her job was (again this annoyed me ) . Her name suggests in the book she is Scottish, so maybe there is more detail on her? Ashely Jensen mentioned having babies at one point but as a PP pointed out she is 53. Perhaps Google tells us too much and we were supposed to assume these were all people in their early to mid 40s? I could tell they had aged MC a bit - beard ages him and some grey flecks.

Andrew O'Hagan giving her away didn't matter. I don't think it was meant to be her dad - no one in this programme seemed to have family really. I have read criticisms of the book that centre on the fact that O'Hagan- in his own grief- is positioning himself as the single most important thing ever to Tully. Which does make sense n the one dimensional presentation of his wife.

I also found it distracting that characters like Colin McCredie (ex Taggart) were introduced , we didn't really get to know them and they were a distraction. Slimming down the characters might have helped. I also got annoyed by their perfect middle class, tasteful lives! No one , except for MC, ever seemed to go to work.

And on a final whine, the actor playing Young Tully is not Scottish. Even DH who hasn't got much of an ear spotted the accent sounded wrong. Preferred Young Noodles - I quite liked him and would have liked more.

I grew up in almost exactly the same place in the 80s and my 80s weren't dappled light and post punk navel gazing! In fact, much of life in the West of Scotland was grim and ,whilst they discussed Thatcher, the desire to escape wasn't really justified in the way their memories were framed. That said, I would have liked to have spent longer in the 80s - I take it the flashbacks were to represent how we remember our pasts, which could have been clever - I gather the book is more linear.

For a better Martin Compston teenage rite of passage thing watch Loach's Sweet Sixteen - a believable, and heart-breaking, male teen friendship in that film, set in post Thatcher Greenock, just up the road.

Sorry - long post! But it has irritated me that so many newspapers gave this 5 stars and I can't tell why. Is tender masculinity such an unusual thing that we are suddenly falling over ourselves to praise something which shows it and not getting some critical perspective on it? I don't much care for Strike but I think Cormoran Strike as played by Tom Burke was a much better portrait of a man struggling with demons and emotions.

Piggywaspushed · 30/12/2022 07:57

Oh! I have just read an Amazon review of the book and Tully is older than the rest of them. Only by three years but it does explain a lot about what I thought was slightly inexplicable hero worship.

SammyScrounge · 30/12/2022 07:58

ToooOldForThis · 28/12/2022 22:44

@SammyScrounge that's what was missing for me having read the book...I don't know if you got the real depth of Tully's relationship with his dad, or Jimmy's lack of family which makes his bond with Tully so pivotal.

I think I'll have to read the book now! When Tully and Jimmy discussed 'reluctant fathers'.it.was obvious something important was missing from the drama. Maybe the script writer got caught between exploring the significance of father's failings and the decision to self euthanize.
But it was still an effective drama.

Piggywaspushed · 30/12/2022 08:12

This is actually more interesting - and moving- than the programme!

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/30/andrew-ohagan-if-you-are-honest-you-never-stop-being-who-you-were

'Tully' and the friendship sound much more important in this and the stuff about O'Hagan and the books and reading sound like a better plotline to me in so many ways. Perhaps if his friend hadn't died , this is the book he would have written.

the80sweregreat · 30/12/2022 08:19

Most men I've known over the years don't become nostalgic about anything much
Women tend to do this more.

Forestdweller11 · 30/12/2022 08:20

Another one here who got a bit bogged down in the ages after I'd watched it. Think I'd give it 4 stars. I watched in trepidation as earlier this year I came across 'a short stay in Switzerland' which is very bleak. Im in two minds whether to read the book as I suspect it will be more emotional than the TV drama.

ToooOldForThis · 30/12/2022 09:22

@Piggywaspushed the book goes into so much more depth on all the issues you've raised, I can't understand why they decided to just skim through it in quite a shallow way. It must be so hard to decide what to include and they probably had limited funding.
I disagree re the boy chat though, they remind me of some groups of boys I used to kick about with who did spout political shite etc after a few Buckfasts, and some were pretty demonstrative too!

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Bouledeneige · 30/12/2022 09:56

I loved the book and was very moved by icy. I didn't think the adaptation was very good. Too much jumping around and not really capturing the intensity of their friendship as teens and young men - just flash back pictures etc. I didn't find the casting compelling or the friendships that convincing. But maybe that was because I loved the book so much.

Piggywaspushed · 30/12/2022 10:26

Oh yeah, they spouted political stuff for sure but I'm no sure quite in that way. And the kissing stuff...in Scotland in the 80s? No way...

I certainly remember a few boys being a bit mean and moody but the pretentious chit chat was over scripted. They'd be angrier about Thatcher whereas this made them seem shallow.

Piggywaspushed · 30/12/2022 10:28

I wonder if the limited funding was actually 'limited Compston'. He is pretty much in LA for much of the year and then in Scotland for a few months. It was maybe hurriedly filmed while he was around.

Piggywaspushed · 30/12/2022 10:29

Just to say on the pretentious chatter , I would have believed it more if we had seen more of it , oddly.

PoloMintPatty · 30/12/2022 10:33

I think this is where the book was miles better. The whole first section introduces the characters and leads up to the Manchester trip.

The incessant chat, the closeness, the dynamics.

It was hard to get that from the drama.

I did love the book though

DillDanding · 30/12/2022 10:39

I haven’t read the book, but I found the flashbacks tedious.

On the whole though, it was very good. The end scenes were really moving and dh and I both cried and felt quite depressed!

DillDanding · 30/12/2022 10:43

Just read the whole thread.

I kept saying ‘how can they be the same age?! One looks miles older than the other!’

ToooOldForThis · 30/12/2022 10:52

I think the answer is, everyone needs to read the book!
Actually the audio book was great as the author reads it and of course has the right accent etc.
It just fills in all the back stories, the flashbacks are not flashbacks but a massive chunk of the story. Decent character development for all these people like Limbo and Tully's family.

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FoxtrotOscarFoxtrotOscar · 30/12/2022 10:54

Can't believe the Times gave this 5 stars.
The friendships seemed forced and fake with little connection amongst all four of them.
We read all the time about men not having close friendships and this was so unbelievable.

RubertRoo · 30/12/2022 14:21

I think I might need to read the book to understand. I didn't get the point of Manchester from this. It didn't seem a particularly life changing trip to keep bringing up flashbacks of - nothing actually happened there.

TvGorge · 30/12/2022 14:59

I love Martin Compston in many things 'Sweet Sixteen' and Line of Duty but it's like he's been spread a bit thin. I can imagine the casting session for any Scottish drama these days goes 'which part did you envision Martin Compston playing?'

GardenDIce · 30/12/2022 15:30

TvGorge · 30/12/2022 14:59

I love Martin Compston in many things 'Sweet Sixteen' and Line of Duty but it's like he's been spread a bit thin. I can imagine the casting session for any Scottish drama these days goes 'which part did you envision Martin Compston playing?'

"spread a bit thin" and you list two shows, one of which is not set in Scotland.

caravanbuckie · 30/12/2022 15:40

I think it was too rushed maybe?

The accent difference between young and old Tully was really irritating too.

Hbh17 · 30/12/2022 15:51

I haven't read the book, but I thought this was a fantastic TV drama. It did teeter on the verge of becoming sentimental, but just about avoided it.
It wasn't at all depressing - rather, it was an uplifting celebration of friendship. I liked all the main performances, although Ashley Jensen's character was rather selfish - why did she want to condemn Tully to suffer for way longer than he had to, just so she could "have more time with him"?
Above all, it was a powerful argument in favour of assisted suicide - just barbaric that we can't legally do this in the UK.

Piggywaspushed · 30/12/2022 16:02

GardenDIce · 30/12/2022 15:30

"spread a bit thin" and you list two shows, one of which is not set in Scotland.

Sweet Sixteen isn't a show and , to be fair, I don't think that's what the PP is saying. MC is indeed popping up in quite a lot of stuff since his success in LoD.

the80sweregreat · 30/12/2022 16:34

As I said before, politicians are scared of euthanasia being made legal and always vote it down ( the last bill was in 2016 I believe ? )
I can see why, but properly done it would be popular I think : they just see the moral side of it I think they see it as people 'bumping' off relatives for money :(
I understand the arguments against, but everyone i know are all for it to be honest
It is a controversial subject

Blossomtoes · 30/12/2022 17:51

The book is beautiful, lyrical and incredibly well written. The TV programme is travesty. I expected to cry and didn’t shed a tear. What a waste.

Yajebbend · 30/12/2022 18:01

Wow a tough crowd you are! I adored it so much