Louise Woodward The Killer Nanny. did she do it?

[HeckinMiffed]

This was such a huge case when I was younger. Anyone else watching?
I always thought she didnt deliberately kill the baby.

@mathanxiety

I haven't said it was.

She was working as an au pair, which involves baby and child care.

Her problem was that she expected her stay in the US to be basically a paid holiday.

You cannot possibly know what she expected.

And besides, who at 17 knows what to expect in a new role in another land? No one, that's who. Just as first time parents cannot prepare fully no matter how conscientious they are.

And besides, who at 17 knows what to expect in a new role in another land?

LW was 19 when convicted. Idk if this was a mistake or took into account the length from application for the role to starting it. In any case, this is equally true at 19, even without the qualifying statement about first time parents. Years ago we moved around different countries with dh’s company. Dh hadn’t been there long and being selected for this type of work was a huge privilege. This first role was vastly different than the one he had thought and didn’t play to his strengths, he was doing fine but really hated it. I also wasn’t happy there either. One word from me and we would have returned home. But I refused and said he had to wait it out for at least 6 months. By then he’d been offered a more suitable role in a different country and we didn’t look back. He was in his 30s, not a wet behind the ears 19 yo.

Oh and I should have said, he also wasn’t alone as we were married, he was earning very decent money with perks, we had enough money to move our belongings back to the U.K. if needed, owned a house back home albeit rented out at that time and so forth.

The Eappens had voiced their unhappiness to LW about her poor performance and had already got rid of a few other au pairs who didn't work out

Wow. I don't know anyone who's used a steady stream of ever changing randoms as childcare. People I know tend to take their childcare arrangements a bit more seriously thankfully. Must have been confusing for the kids as they'd never have a chance to bond with any of them

Whether or not it's the norm or not is irrelevant. It used to be considered an honour if the priest singled out your 11 year old boy for a bit of extra attention. Just because something happens on a regular basis doesn't make it automatically OK.

They did what they did and they considered it OK, we know that. Their statement about LW showed they took no responsibility at all.

A more emotionally mature couple wouldn't have made that statement imo it was to brand her a killer forever in the public opinion.

It's really effing hard looking after a toddler and a baby even when they're yours and you love them.

The Eappens didn't seem to acknowledge that which is why I think they come across badly. They never acknowledge that childcare was where they scrimped. They lived in a big house in a nice area and as a neighbour said they had a new volvo. They made choices and childcare was where they scrimped.

They'd had other au pairs they'd sent back, so they didn't seem to ''LEARN'' that a young girl is going to struggle with a baby and a toddler and that they might need to spend more.

They stuck with that plan to use cheap childcare. Because everybody else does it?? If your friend jumps off a bridge etc...

I'm not defending LW, btw, I think she was probably the cause of the ''older injury'' but if the charge had been manslaughter to begin with the Eappens were as responsible in my opinion.

By shifting all blame on to a 19 year old they never stop and ask themselves if they could have moved to a smaller house, foregone the NEW car, both worked part time. NOPE, no, it's just all the fault of an 18/19 year old au pair!!

The Eappens had voiced their unhappiness to LW about her poor performance and had already got rid of au pairs who didn’t work out. There is no reason to believe they wouldn’t have got rid of her and found someone else.

This.

Wow it still shocks me anew. They just stuck rigidly with their decision to use cheap childcare. They had seen first hand that inexperienced au pairs aren't great childcare but they kept doing the same thing over again.

Kept the house, the new car, both working. Why did the husband Sunny not go part time?

@mathanxiety

Well if I was looking for solid experience I wouldn't be recruiting an 18 year old from another country who I'd never met. If I did do that and I was unhappy with them I'd find someone else.

The Eappens had voiced their unhappiness to LW about her poor performance and had already got rid of a few other au pairs who didn't work out. There is no reason to believe they wouldn't have got rid of her and found someone else.

Babysitting is not the same as working fulltime with two small children.

Babysitting several nights per week since you were about 13, taking care of babies and children of all ages, is an excellent preparation for working full time with two small children. You learn to deal with crying babies, tantrumming toddlers, children who don't want to go to bed. You do it well and efficiently or you don't get asked back.

Sitting in a classroom studying child development with a few carefully curated placements is not.

My neighbour had a bit of a shock when she found out she was expecting twins as she already had twins who were only 2. The local college used her as a placement for a NNEB student. I can assure you it wasn't a carefully curated placement and for the student being in a home with 4 young children for 8 hours a day 2 or 3 days a week was excellent preparation for being a nanny. Of course she would expect to be paid as a nanny as I'm sure your son will be expecting to be paid as a doctor when he qualifies and not as a healthcare assistant.

In the UK babysitting is usually in the evenings so parents will have children ready for bed or in bed. It isn't anything like have sole charge of two children for a working day.

I'm confused about your explanations earlier about how the Eappens needed living in care they could afford as doctors work such long hours. Now it is the mother only worked 3 days a week for 8 hours and sometimes came home for lunch. If that's true why did they need someone to live in 24/7? It doesn't make sense. A nursery placement 3 days a week would have been fine, many hospitals in the UK will have a nursery for staff that would cover that easily. Don't US hospitals have that sort of facility? Or a local nursery.

@UserBot2022

Whether or not it's the norm or not is irrelevant. It used to be considered an honour if the priest singled out your 11 year old boy for a bit of extra attention. Just because something happens on a regular basis doesn't make it automatically OK.

They did what they did and they considered it OK, we know that. Their statement about LW showed they took no responsibility at all.

A more emotionally mature couple wouldn't have made that statement imo it was to brand her a killer forever in the public opinion.

It's really effing hard looking after a toddler and a baby even when they're yours and you love them.

The Eappens didn't seem to acknowledge that which is why I think they come across badly. They never acknowledge that childcare was where they scrimped. They lived in a big house in a nice area and as a neighbour said they had a new volvo. They made choices and childcare was where they scrimped.

They'd had other au pairs they'd sent back, so they didn't seem to ''LEARN'' that a young girl is going to struggle with a baby and a toddler and that they might need to spend more.

They stuck with that plan to use cheap childcare. Because everybody else does it?? If your friend jumps off a bridge etc...

I'm not defending LW, btw, I think she was probably the cause of the ''older injury'' but if the charge had been manslaughter to begin with the Eappens were as responsible in my opinion.

By shifting all blame on to a 19 year old they never stop and ask themselves if they could have moved to a smaller house, foregone the NEW car, both worked part time. NOPE, no, it's just all the fault of an 18/19 year old au pair!!

This is so true I was 36 when my youngest son was born my oldest was three I was a supposably responsible adult and a qualified nurse ,but looking after a toddler and a baby was so hard no matter how much I loved them .

99.99% of the time, the arrangement works out really well
It doesn't sound like it if they'd gone through a stream of other au pairs

Some posters have found it odd that the mother described her baby as ‘fat and lazy’. I agree that it was surprising initially to hear those words, but I didn’t find it unpleasant or shocking. Describing a baby as fat and lazy is quite different to using those terms to describe an older child or adult. I felt the mother was simply trying to portray that her son was a pleasant and easy baby. Not the sort of baby who would fuss or cry a lot and therefore make their caregiver frustrated.

I’m interpretation was that she believed LW had acted maliciously and perhaps was concerned that the jury would have sympathy for a very young woman looking after a difficult baby. She was attempting to mitigate this by emphasising that Matthew was an easy baby.

I described my own DS as fat when he was a baby. I may have even said he was lazy. Basically, he was just a big smiling chunk of a boy who was very easy to look after.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

Yes but some 8 month olds are very mobile ,before he could crawl or walk my oldest used to roll across the floor from one side of the room to another DS crawled and was pulling to stand at 7m, the mobility of an 8 month old is massively variable.

Yes it really is, if I'd expected my youngest child to be exactly the same as their 2 year old sibling I'd have made a massive mistake. I had one really early walker, 2 who walked at around 12 months and one who wasn't in any rush to get mobile. The early walker was the late reader, the late walker was the one who taught themself to read at 2. They vary so much don't they.

My DS nearly broke my nose on more than a few occasions at that age he often lashed his head backwards when sat on my lap.

There are those babies who are very easy to look after, by their own parents but leave them with somebody else for a bit and it's a different story. Maybe LW didn't find him fat and lazy as Mrs Eappen did but really hard work, especially with a 3 year old as well.

Yes and especially if the care givers kept changing

@GruffaloSolja

The American legal system is a farce, or at least it was back then. This whole trial was a performance. It was never about getting justice for Matthew. It was all about who could put on the best show. Evidence and facts meant nothing in this case. Several times throughout the documentary it was mentioned how well Louise had been coached. And that sums it up perfectly in my mind, that anyone can be trained on how to wipe their face in the correct way to make the tears look genuine. How to give the right answers and to admit to just enough ambiguous guilt to cause doubt and confusion.

And the way the people in the pub where cheering at the reduction in sentence. That woman was right - they were cheering like she'd won gold. But it wasn't the Olympics. It was the trial for the murder of an 8 month old baby boy.

But everyone would be 'coached' on how to appear and behave in this kind of situation, guilty or innocent. I don't think this is any indication of how guilty or not guilty she is

@x2boys same, I had my second at 36 so I had a nearly 3 year old and a baby and it was so so so so hard I nearly went crazy.

Not saying same, as in I went crazy like You!! I mean, same age to have second child. And it was hard.

What was with that journalist's claim that she had a tape claiming that that person now no longer believed Louise was innocent and was saying all those horrible things about her?!
She must have made it all up as if that happened and there really was a tape then no way would she have destroyed it!
It makes no sense!

@purpleme12

What was with that journalist's claim that she had a tape claiming that that person now no longer believed Louise was innocent and was saying all those horrible things about her?! She must have made it all up as if that happened and there really was a tape then no way would she have destroyed it! It makes no sense!

That's just it though isn't it? It's all hearsay. It's all He said, she said and no actual physical evidence or proof to back it all up. What this documentary needed was the appropriate experts re examining the actual medical and autopsy reports using up-to-date techniques. Although it said Shaken Baby syndrome is a controversial diagnosis it didn't really expand enough on that in my opinion.

I agree @GruffaloSolja it was just a rehash of the original case which we had already seen. We were all left thinking ‘eh?’ 🤔

@Sparklingbrook

There are those babies who are very easy to look after, by their own parents but leave them with somebody else for a bit and it's a different story. Maybe LW didn't find him fat and lazy as Mrs Eappen did but really hard work, especially with a 3 year old as well.

Oh yes, absolutely. I don’t disagree with that. I was just responding to the suggestion that it was strange for Mrs Eappen to say such a thing about her baby. I don’t think it was a particularly strange thing to say about one’s own baby.

www.parentsaccused.co.uk/vitamin-d-deficiency/
There have been several cases of 'shaken babies' where it has been discovered that the baby in fact had a vit d deficiency which can cause fractures
Many people are unknowingly Vit d deficient , especially
Certain people are more likely to develop vitamin D deficiency thatn others, such as pregnant/breastfeeding mothers, those who get less sun and people who have darker skin (Asian, African or African-Caribbean).
Sadly this information was not available at time of Matthew's death and may have drastically changed the outcome

@Stopyourhavering64

www.parentsaccused.co.uk/vitamin-d-deficiency/ There have been several cases of 'shaken babies' where it has been discovered that the baby in fact had a vit d deficiency which can cause fractures Many people are unknowingly Vit d deficient , especially Certain people are more likely to develop vitamin D deficiency thatn others, such as pregnant/breastfeeding mothers, those who get less sun and people who have darker skin (Asian, African or African-Caribbean). Sadly this information was not available at time of Matthew's death and may have drastically changed the outcome

Well that's interesting given that Matthew was mixed race The Doctor who changed his mind also said some injures could have occurred in utero ,babies can have strokes etc ,and did they ever discuss his birth ,was it assisted ,forceps ,ventouse etc?

There was an expose here (Ireland) a number of years ago about the amount of families using au pairs from abroad as cheap childcare mainly eastern europeans and south americans who were looking to learn English. The exposé was done mainly around their exploitation and the long hours they were expected to work for very little money. What it did do was demonstrate how expensive and often unaffordable good childcare is and although it was done to expose the poor working conditions for these au pairs it also highlighted the danger of using cheap unqualified childcare with many early years specialists getting involved in the debate. What it did achieve was shame the people employing and exploiting these au pairs and bring in tighter regulations around it and also demonstrate to the government the importance of funding early years care and the need to fund good quality regulated care to support positive child outcomes. I am surprised after all these years similar exposés have not happened in the States.

I think LW was an inexperienced naïve homesick girl who was not able to cope with the demands of her role and didn't seem to have any great interest in it. I do feel she had a part to play in Matthews death and I think ultimately the judge got it right, unintentional manslaughter and time served. I would have thought lessons would have been learnt after this and better awareness of the importance of good quality early years care but sadly that doesn't seem to be the case

I think she did it 100% she admitted she had shaken him but not hard ?! I really don’t know how she got away with it.