Louise Woodward The Killer Nanny. did she do it?

[HeckinMiffed]

This was such a huge case when I was younger. Anyone else watching?
I always thought she didnt deliberately kill the baby.

@Strawberry33

That laugh tells me all I need to know. That’s more than a nervous slight half giggle that was pure joy and delight. Gave me chills. Not normal at all. She may not have meant to do it but she did. Even more mysterious is the willingness and obsessiveness of her supporters who decided she was innocent before they even had any facts at all and just ran with it.

If you think it's possible that she may not have meant to do it, but did - why on earth with she would she be giggling with "pure joy and delight?"

Surely only a stone-cold psychopath would be giggling with "pure joy and delight" at the thought of their crimes?

@Strawberry33

That laugh tells me all I need to know. That’s more than a nervous slight half giggle that was pure joy and delight. Gave me chills. Not normal at all. She may not have meant to do it but she did. Even more mysterious is the willingness and obsessiveness of her supporters who decided she was innocent before they even had any facts at all and just ran with it.

I have never thought Louise was guilty but even if I'm wrong why would she be laughing joyfully in court ,she was looking at a sentence of at least 15 years,nothing to be joyful about or find delight in .

That laugh tells me all I need to know. That’s more than a nervous slight half giggle that was pure joy and delight. Gave me chills. Not normal at all.
I think it was an overload of emotions.
The baby didn't have any bruises on his body, I'm slight, DS was a big baby I could barely lift him, I certainly couldn't shake him for a minute and not leave any marks.

@mathanxiety

I was referring to UK qualifications, we don't have associate degrees, or 4 year degrees - well we do but don't call them that.

@sashh
In the context of a discussion of how appalling it was that this pair of doctors hired an 'unqualified' nanny to take care of their children, I felt it would be useful to point out that there is no such thing as a 'qualified nanny' in the US, that you can get a qualification in early childhood development or education, but you are not likely to use either a bachelors degree or an associates degree to get into nannying.

Applying UK criteria to the decisions made by the Eappens and assuming circumstances in the US would be the same as in the UK is not fair to them.

They worked with what was available to them. What was available was unqualified young people between jobs whose main attraction was fluent English.

I'm guessing that they could have found an older woman with some sense and experience, even if she didn't have perfect English.

@Letsbekindplease
That's exactly what DH & I said as soon as she said it. DH said she looks evil.

Describing her 8mth young son as easy, beautiful, fat and lazy didn't sit comfortably with me either.

The sibling wasn't questioned was he?

They worked with what was available to them. What was available was unqualified young people between jobs whose main attraction was fluent English

They employed a young English woman. They could have looked for a qualified and trained British nanny- they are very much "a thing".

I'm sure the offer of a job in the US would have been attractive to a trained British nanny but they would have had to pay a salary which reflected that.

@KimikosNightmare

They worked with what was available to them. What was available was unqualified young people between jobs whose main attraction was fluent English

They employed a young English woman. They could have looked for a qualified and trained British nanny- they are very much "a thing".

I'm sure the offer of a job in the US would have been attractive to a trained British nanny but they would have had to pay a salary which reflected that.

They couldn't just have recruited a fully qualified British nanny and flown her over because they would probably have been unable to get a visa. The au pair scheme allows au pairs to work and study in the US on a J1 visa and it's generally just for a year. Many thousands of young people provide childcare in the US on this basis.

[quote DownleyDudette]@Letsbekindplease
That's exactly what DH & I said as soon as she said it. DH said she looks evil.

Describing her 8mth young son as easy, beautiful, fat and lazy didn't sit comfortably with me either.

The sibling wasn't questioned was he? [/quote]
If "she looks evil" then you sound evil. Awful thing to say.

Is/was it so difficult to find an older woman, preferably a mother herself, to provide childcare? It doesn't have to be someone trained, just someone older, with experience of looking after children and being responsible.
Did they, or do others who make the same decision, choose an aupair over a minimum wage immigrant, for example? To save money? Or for racist reasons? Couldn't they have employed an older woman as a nanny, and the aupair to help with working round full time working hours / babysitting?
It wasn't a responsible decision. I find it hard to believe that if they were wealthy they genuinely had no choice.

@bridegroomxs

Yes I vaguely remember this because a neighbour was on the news talking about it saying she was innocent and putting yellow ribbons up around the town. I'm not sure why she was so sure she didn't do it I was only young

That was so weird. That woman fronted the yellow ribbons, she organised the pub meetings, made sure the media were in the pub for all the court stuff, arranged locals with phones in the pub ringing where ever getting support, I thought all the way through she must be an aunt but at the end she said she didn't even know Louise, she said she never spoke of the case to her when she came home, just small talk in the street.

I don't know who said it in the programme but someone slated the village saying they had no lives to take the protesting etc so far. She had the media on Louise's side and they were printing support for Louise, then the day she came home the papers turned on Louise and printed not to let her mind your kids. The woman then went around and binned all the ribbons.

@Ellowyn

I watched this here in the US in Court TV and always believed the baby's brother had been accidentally hurting him. The mother and Louise Woodward, maybe someone else as well, said the older brother had been playing with the baby really rough.

One thing stood out for me and that was even though both parents were doctors, neither one noticed his broken bones. He had a broken arm besides the skull fracture. Surely there would have been heat , discoloration and swelling in that arm and he would have been screaming.

Also here, the word 'pop' mean punch, as in 'I popped him in the mouth'. She told the police she popped him on the bed

Language differences can be really misconstrued in court.

I was on a jury for a CSA trial, and the defence were trying to suggest the children were making it all up because they told their parents they were “making secrets” about the family friend they had accused. It was interpreted in court as “making up secrets”.

But it doesn’t mean that, in five year old speech where I’m from. It means bitching about somebody you’ve fallen out with, behind their back. Perfectly understandable that two small children might be “making secrets” about somebody who was cornering them and sexually assaulting them when their parents left the room.

@bestbefore

I think it's awful this is all being dragged up again! Wonder if she's participated in the programme?

I agree. It could put her safety at risk.

Just watched this.

My main observations are, wow the villagers back home , decided straight away she was innocent just because she was a local. All the fundraising, group gatherings in the pub, yellow ribbons. Turns out they didn't even know her! Classic example of mass hysteria. The lady who said they must have nothing better to do was spot on. They should be mortified at their behaviour. All the cheering & celebrating, such a bad look when at the centre of all this a baby has died

Did she cause the babys death? Who knows, but there was certainly reasonable doubt.

Can't believe that so much weight is put on lie detector tests.

@Strawberry33

That laugh tells me all I need to know. That’s more than a nervous slight half giggle that was pure joy and delight. Gave me chills. Not normal at all. She may not have meant to do it but she did. Even more mysterious is the willingness and obsessiveness of her supporters who decided she was innocent before they even had any facts at all and just ran with it.

That laugh tells you absolutely nothing.

It isn’t actually a laugh in the normal sense. It’s an extremely nervous reaction. I can relate as I did something very similar when I was about 12 or 13 and broke the news to my mum her colleague at school had died. It wasn’t in the slightest bit funny, hence it’s not a “ha ha” laugh, rather a momently lapse of control of your emotions. You can also see her heavy breathing as she’s doing this.

I do think it’s weird the village were adamant she didn’t do it. I don’t think where I live I’d join in support for someone I didn’t know just because they lived near me. I wonder what else drove it?

I laughed all the way through 2 years of therapy for PTSD because thats what I do when Im nervous or scared. The laugh doesnt mean guilt at all

@ENoeuf

I do think it’s weird the village were adamant she didn’t do it. I don’t think where I live I’d join in support for someone I didn’t know just because they lived near me. I wonder what else drove it?

A lot of people may have known her or her family ,maybe their kids went to school with her? Or maybe some people were enjoying the fundraising evenings ,the pub was a focul point ,maybe people enjoyed feeling part of a community?

@ENoeuf

I do think it’s weird the village were adamant she didn’t do it. I don’t think where I live I’d join in support for someone I didn’t know just because they lived near me. I wonder what else drove it?

They all knew her.

People pledge support for all sorts of people.
I remember a woman I knew stating categorically that in her opinion Jimmy Saville was innocent. She had run many times with him and he had never, ever done anything untoward towards anyone. I remember watching This Morning and a patient of Harold Shipman called in. She was adamant that her doctor would not hurt a fly. I also have family members who unfortunately were involved with the case. For reasons personal to them, when contacted by the police they specifically refused to peruse the real possibility that that evil bastard had murdered their relative, that is their prerogative. You cannot judge people on their reactions just because they differ to yours.
Regarding this case I had no idea that it was so widespread in the US that they employed immature, unqualified staff. I have worked with young children and I have many qualifications which allow me to work with children between the ages of 0-16.
I have always worked along side other adults. After watching this I would never recommend my dcs to work alone with children.
Without casting judgement on other parents I am so so glad that I never employed an au pair, nanny or otherwise. This whole affair is dreadful.

The blonde lady specifically said they didn't know her

Oh I thought a pp wrote that the organising woman didn’t know her / hadn’t met her?

@Onlinedilema a friend of mine is also adamant that Savile is innocent. She worked at Stoke Mandeville at the time as did her husband. And said their was no suggestion of anything.

I thought the laugh was really off. Everyone has seen people laugh nervously but it also seemed to be someone who was really rehearsed being caught off guard. And the reaction of the villagers was shockingly bad - I get they were happy but it was really insensitive when a baby died.

This was only two months after Diana died. The UK was still slightly hysterical at that stage.