Call the Midwife

[Toddlerteaplease]

Well this is boring.

Watched last nights episode with sadness, my birth mother's family were from Russia and Poland, I remember the name of Przemysl being mentioned. My maternal grandparents escaped ?? How. My grandmother (Babushka) was very distant, I now know why. However my mother denied her roots and changed her Russian name to an English name. Have been unable to find out anything more as she left me with my father when I was 6/7 years I suspect she was very troubled. Last night was so sad.

@PriamFarrl

I find it quite insulting - pretending everyone would have been fine with homosexuality contributes to the idea that homophobia isn't really that big an issue, and it's a bit like gaslighting.

I agree. I hate in series when characters have very modern attitudes. Sometimes they would have had opinions that would be abhorrent today. They could have had a character mentioning that they think it’s dreadful and then someone else give the modern opinion and why.

Yes. This really bothers me in historical dramas. The only ones allowed to have period-accurate views are the villains. It can be even worse in books - I read one where I was sure the twist was going to be that the medieval protagonist was a time traveller because of all her 21st century views and knowledge. Sadly not, just bad writing.

It reminds me of when people used to paint historical figures/characters (saints, the Holy Family, monarchs, etc) wearing the style of clothing contemporary to the artist. Same anachrpnistic energy. Although they might have the excuse of not knowing any better!

SarahandQuack*

What is interesting to me is that you have someone like SisterJ, or earlier Sister Evangelina, who were at the same time very orthodox in their faith, we know Sister J had real concerns about the increased availability of contraception, but then they were the same people who treated women with advanced syphilis without comment, or prostitutes, or early on Sister J admonished Jenny for being shocked at the siblings living together in a sexual relationship.

These things were touched on in earlier seasons, and maybe more to the point they were really the case.

But the current writers don't seem to be able to understand how to bring these kinds of viewpoints together and communicate them to the audience in a way that allows us to see the characters as whole people with their own viewpoints that make sense to them.

@PriamFarrl

I find it quite insulting - pretending everyone would have been fine with homosexuality contributes to the idea that homophobia isn't really that big an issue, and it's a bit like gaslighting.

I agree. I hate in series when characters have very modern attitudes. Sometimes they would have had opinions that would be abhorrent today. They could have had a character mentioning that they think it’s dreadful and then someone else give the modern opinion and why.

Yes! That's what they did with the contraception storyline in an earlier series IIRC - Trixie was all for it and Sister J was very prim and religious.

It flattens the characters so much to make them all the same, doesn't it?

We have had homophobic attitudes in Call the Midwife, I remember when Richard Hesmond-something played a young married man whose wife had a baby was caught making pass at an undercover policeman in a public loo. The world and his wife were down on him in Poplar, it was horrible. Dr Turner had to prescribe hormone treatment for him and monitor him regularly, in order to keep him out of gaol. He wasn't happy about it but he had to. The poor guy even tried to commit suicide.

There have been a couple of others too, I remember one guy going to an awful clinic for aversion therapy but was rescued by Dr Turner and Phyllis.

I don't think it is unreasonable for people like the Turners, who see so much of other people's lives, to have a sympathetic attitude. There have always been some who come to realise that people are born that way. It just wasn't mainstream.

The other thing is people change their minds and modify their ideas with age and experience. I am 72 and know that is true, I've seen it. When I was a kid I remember being told that homosexuality was a mental illness!

But aren't storylines like that making it worse? Of course there have been homophobic attitudes - but they've only been written so as to show how wonderful and progressive the main characters are. That's what's so unrealistic.

Nothing in Dr T's character suggests he would be accepting - they've had whole storylines about him basically struggling because he had a stereotyped view of masculinity: he didn't want to admit he had PTSD because of it.

The idea that homosexuality was a mental illness is still alive and well - it was quite common even in the 90s/early 2000s. Remember that it was illegal to teach children about 'pretended family relationships' (ie., gay couples and families) in state schools until 2003, and some schools kept that rule on their books until 2010.

I can’t remember the conversion episode fully now, but I thought Dr Turner had been quite down the line about it, but finding out about what conversion involved gave him a different view? I might be misremembering that though. I do agree they could do with some people on the other side of the debate. They did similar when Trixie spoke out about abortion and Sister Julienne was supportive, which was bizarre given her previous views on contraception.

@SantaClawsServiette

SarahandQuack*

What is interesting to me is that you have someone like SisterJ, or earlier Sister Evangelina, who were at the same time very orthodox in their faith, we know Sister J had real concerns about the increased availability of contraception, but then they were the same people who treated women with advanced syphilis without comment, or prostitutes, or early on Sister J admonished Jenny for being shocked at the siblings living together in a sexual relationship.

These things were touched on in earlier seasons, and maybe more to the point they were really the case.

But the current writers don't seem to be able to understand how to bring these kinds of viewpoints together and communicate them to the audience in a way that allows us to see the characters as whole people with their own viewpoints that make sense to them.

YY!

I think, as someone said, it might be that the writers don't have enough life experience. I think one of the great things about CTM early on was that sense that Jenny was shocked by some of the things people accepted (mainly the living conditions), and the nuns were able to be broad-minded and to demonstrate that people deserve decency, even if you don't agree with the way they live their lives.

That is very different from the current happy-clappy 'oh yay the gays' message, and the current message is much less appealing to watch!

The conversion therapy episode was last season, and not very well done, it's a good example of the main characters all having unrealistically modern attitudes. Right down to using phrases straight out of the modern gay rights literature. The episode with the young husband, which was quite early on in maybe series two or three, was much better.

I do wonder if the issue is the writers don't see the difference between this, and as a pp said, showing that we can believe in the dignity of all even when we have a problem with their values or lifestyle - or if it's that they think they would get flack for writing episodes like that now. It's really only ten years since those early episodes but it seems to me like television has changed a lot in terms of being very safe in their approaches to topics.

I really feel like the human dignity message is one we could especially use at the moment!

Why did I think the conversion episode was older? Maybe it is because it wasn’t very good so I’ve blanked it already! I think you’re completely right in what you say about the writers. There’s no depth anymore, it’s just “oh look at everything turning out ok and a nice word from Dr Turner and on we go”.

Where they are people never stop talking about it

Yes, the Poles talk about it, but who else? It’s basically ignored by historians, the media etc. Britain did not acknowledge the Katyn massacre until 1991.

@TrashyPanda

Where they are people never stop talking about it

Yes, the Poles talk about it, but who else? It’s basically ignored by historians, the media etc. Britain did not acknowledge the Katyn massacre until 1991.

No, I meant, MIL talks about it even though she was born Polish - people in the area talk a lot more! Unfortunately it's not nice talk, but you are mistaken if you think people don't know about that particular wave of Polish immigrations.

Historians of course talk about it too, but I would say it's the ordinary people who are very conscious of what happened.

Well, I’m glad you know about it, but my personal experience as a member of the community is entirely different.

@Nevermindful

Why did I think the conversion episode was older? Maybe it is because it wasn’t very good so I’ve blanked it already! I think you’re completely right in what you say about the writers. There’s no depth anymore, it’s just “oh look at everything turning out ok and a nice word from Dr Turner and on we go”.

Have they changed the show runner at some point? It just seems like such an extreme change in content.

All the characters are so simpering, it's really annoying! I miss the grittier storylines of earlier series and the mix of historically accurate perspectives.

I completely forgot about Cynthia, is she ever coming back?? I thought her storyline would continue, it was good albeit sad. I googled and it seems she's left?

I even find the coy references to cake every episode annoying! It reminds me of 'prosecco time!' and gin memes and the modern day diet industry. I don't remember baked goods being treated with such saccharine coyness in the 80s when I was a child. It was a case of everything in moderation. Middle aged relatives partook or didn't but didn't make a huge cringey event of it. I guess we stuck to 3 meals a day, didn't snack as often and walked more. I just don't remember people doing the 'ooooh so naughty!' thing that the midwives and sisters imply every flipping episode!

@Imayhaveerred

Also while I’m being picky surely there is no way a trained nurse would be scraping dog shit off her shoe in the kitchen sink?

I thought this

I'd have liked Cyril's initial reaction to Lucille's pregnancy to have been something other than delight. That relationship could do with a little bit of grit in it.

I wouldnt worry, if recent series are anything to go by, at least one of them will be dead by Xmas. Probably Cyril, just after they complete on their house purchase and shortly before Lucille gives birth to Cyril Jr. And he will act as youngest page boy at SPOILER ALERT Trixie and Wet Matthew's Xmas wedding.

i think the point of coats and cardigans was the new mother and the polish man were ill,

I'm guessing they will push back Lucille's conception date due to her being on the pill and we will see a dramatic premature birth on Christmas Day. In a snow storm.

The 'naughty but nice' approach to cake is again a modern construct, isn't it? In previous times having a mid afternoon cup of tea and a slice of cake was just a normal part of the daily routine. Nothing to make a fuss about! A cake would have been baked in most homes at least once a week!

The medical/midwifery storylines all seem to be very nicely packaged to conclude within one episode (and all with a positive spin) which is not how real life works.

The cake thing used to make sense as it used to be about the nuns having to live simply so if there was a particularly special cake it was a big deal. Now they’ve forgotten why they did it and made it ridiculous.

@TrashyPanda

Well, I’m glad you know about it, but my personal experience as a member of the community is entirely different.

I wasn't suggesting it couldn't be? I didn't mean to offend you. I was just interested to see such a different perspective. I suspect it varies depending where you are and what the local population is like.

@Nevermindful

The cake thing used to make sense as it used to be about the nuns having to live simply so if there was a particularly special cake it was a big deal. Now they’ve forgotten why they did it and made it ridiculous.

YY, I agree. In the books Jennifer Worth goes on about the lovely cake that the cook at Nonatus makes and how Sister Monica Joan goes crazy about it, and in the early series I think they even had a bit about her struggling to keep her Lenten fast?

With their jobs they probably could have eaten a whole cake each daily and kept slim. Constant cycling!