Alison Hargreaves and her son

[ssd]

Just watched the program about Alison Hargreaves and her family.

Brilliant and gut wrenching.

Tom lived in the back of a van for years didn't he? Hardly lavish

Just be mindful there is a poster on here who’s husband died a week or so ago doing something he loved, I’d hate for to read some of these comments. Agree re the poster who raised the issue of jobs, many parents have risky jobs, emergency services, military, divers. She we go back to the days when women married they were forced to quit their jobs. It’s a known risk taken by educated professionals.

Surely it doesn't have to be all or nothing? It's possible to stick to less dangerous mountains/less dangerous conditions without giving up mountain climbing altogether. I don't just mean for parents, I don't think anyone should be doing climbs where the whole appeal is that it's hard and no-one else has done it.

But for many people @RiaOverTheRainbow, that is the appeal. (Ex climber)

@RiaOverTheRainbow

Surely it doesn't have to be all or nothing? It's possible to stick to less dangerous mountains/less dangerous conditions without giving up mountain climbing altogether. I don't just mean for parents, I don't think anyone should be doing climbs where the whole appeal is that it's hard and no-one else has done it.

I just don't understand this way of thinking! If mankind had stuck to the known, the safe path we would never have discovered or developed the way we have. It's those who have taken big risks, explored new horizons, climbed the high mountains who have changed and developed our understanding of this planet.

If we had deployed your thinking we would either have died out or Ben sitting in a cave!

just don't understand this way of thinking! If mankind had stuck to the known, the safe path we would never have discovered or developed the way we have.
It's those who have taken big risks, explored new horizons, climbed the high mountains who have changed and developed our understanding of this planet

That’s just romanticism. Where’s the ‘exploring new horizons’ in doing something lots of people have already done?

I found this so sad. I didn’t know that Tom had died too before I watched the documentary.

It is interesting that men do that sort of thing all the time and it is accepted by it is much rarer for women to be so focused on such a risky goal.

If you are climbing at an elite level it is going to be risky. Climbers are always pushing boundaries.

I really felt for Kate and she seemed quite alone in her grief. I was pleased that Ibrahim seemed to care for her. Her dad seemed quite distant.

"If mankind had stuck to the known, the safe path we would never have discovered or developed the way we have. It's those who have taken big risks, explored new horizons, climbed the high mountains who have changed and developed our understanding of this planet."

Well, up to a point, but here we are talking about climbing X dangerous mountain which has already been climbed many times already by a new route or using a different technique. The contribution to human knowledge is absolutely minimal, it's not like discovering the Americas or even researching unknown plants in the depths of the Amazonian rainforest.

I can see the appeal to a climber, doing something no one else has done before. And thats similar in a lot if sports, people are always trying to break records. That seems to be the whole point if it. Look at what gymnasts do compared to 20 years ago, its mind numbing. So i can understand why these elite climbers try the impossible.

It just shows the strength of mother nature though. We cant ever beat it.

Or conquer it, i should say.

@trumpisagit

Also would the same be said of a man with small children who died climbing a mountain? I don't think so.

I always think it regardless of the sex. I watched some man arrive back in a canoe from rowing across she Atlantic the other day and his wife and kids were there to meet him. I though what a selfish Muppet - his wife is the real hero. I'm listening to a podcast at the moment about K2 and it has struck me how selfish all the people who climb it are. So many people die trying to save those that climb. All the Sherpas are put at enormous risk. It's ok if you're a person with no kids but once you decide to do something this risky you ans you have children then you are putting their future well being at risk. Man or woman you simply are.

I know a lot of climbers and it is something I don't quite get - they really have an appetite for conquering- a mountain. I just think 'thank god that is over' and never experience their elation.

But....there is a fine line when you have responsibilities. I notice a lot of deaths in climbing take place when people are young, and more risk taking. More experienced (less risk taking) climbers turned back when the weather was so bad for Tom and Daniele. They carried on, spurred by their desire to conquer, not put off by the obvious risks.

As for Alison, that is complicated. I believe in the climbing community, it was well known that her husband abused her and climbing was her 'way out' - both emotionally and financially. So that is very complicated

@Toddlerteaplease

I remember when her death was reported, my mum saying how selfish she was, to take such risks when she had young children. I think she had a point.

Goodness your mum must have been incensed by every single shuttle launch. The majority of astronauts were parents.

I can’t wait to see this - I remember her death and also read a book about women mountaineers that dedicated a chapter to her.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/k2-climber-alison-hargreaves-was-beaten-234786

The abuse allegations were in her biography so I've not totally dreamt that up.

I watched this last night - I didn't see any publicity around it or know it was on despite having always had an interest in the story.

Having read the biography of Alison mentioned upthread, I think Jim Ballard had a huge amount of influence and control over his family. Alison was 18 when she met him and he was in his forties I believe - I think it was very much a case of living vicariously through her and in her reflected glory.
When Alison died - I think that transferred to Tom. Yes, he was a natural climber who was desperate to achieve like his mother - but he was also channelled into a very narrow life. Moving to the Dolomites with your father in your teens to live in a van and climb, climb, climb does not give you a broad experience base in life. It was mentioned in the film that he held in a lot of anger... I feel there was a lot of repression in his life.

I felt so very sad for Kate... and the saddest part of all was when she felt there was a need to be 'special' because of her family. 'Specialness' is the thief of contentment. She is already as absolutely special as anyone needs to be!

My husband’s in the military, I intubate covid patients…..we all take risks.

Plenty of obese parents taking a risk with their health just sat on the couch.

Goodness your mum must have been incensed by every single shuttle launch. The majority of astronauts were parents.

The space shuttle programme had hundreds of successful launches/missions, there was obviously a risk involved but nowhere near the risks of climbing an 8000m peak like K2 which at the time or Alison's demise carried about a 30% chance of dying if attempted.

Literally nothing is risk free, I'm just not convinced the reward of climbing a mountain in a new, more dangerous way is worth the risk to the climber, their loved ones, and the support team around them who are also endangered.

It is sad to see that about the domestic abuse. I did have a bad feeling about him. How sad for Tom and Kate.

Has anyone seen the film Sherpa? It’s on Netflix and is about the lives of Sherpa and a disaster on Everest where many of them were killed. There is so much exploitation of Sherpas and they do so much of the work and take a disproportionate amount of the risk but don’t get any of the credit they are due.

It was a very absorbing watch.

And very interesting about what we pass through to our DC, whether it be genetic or experiences shared.

@JoanOgden

"If mankind had stuck to the known, the safe path we would never have discovered or developed the way we have. It's those who have taken big risks, explored new horizons, climbed the high mountains who have changed and developed our understanding of this planet."

Well, up to a point, but here we are talking about climbing X dangerous mountain which has already been climbed many times already by a new route or using a different technique. The contribution to human knowledge is absolutely minimal, it's not like discovering the Americas or even researching unknown plants in the depths of the Amazonian rainforest.

Seriously?!!! You don't think there has been any useful knowledge gained from exploration in mountains? So the scientists who base themselves at base camp on Everest doing research on climate change, geology, hypothermia and exposure to extreme environments, none of these have any value??? There are scientists doing all manner of research in these areas aided and facilitated by professional climbers and local Sherpas. Climbers routinely are paid to take samples etc!

I totally agree that scientific work on mountains is really valuable, but neither Alison or Tom were involved in any scientific work, were they?

@JoanOgden

I totally agree that scientific work on mountains is really valuable, but neither Alison or Tom were involved in any scientific work, were they?

Well as Alison was one of the first women to successfully climb Everest without additional oxygen I suspect her data would have been pretty valuable to scientists yes! Every climber who navigates new routes (which Tom clearly loved to do) would potentially have the ability to open up new areas for scientific exploration. Do I know if he collected samples for scientists? No I don't know. But it is more than possible that he did. Climbers like Tom and Alison play their part. Even if simply by perfecting new skills which assist future climbers and future scientists.

I watched it. Felt angry all over again that she left her children so bereft and how it contributed to her son's death too. Daughter seemed very burdened with having to be 'special'. Sad and mystifying to me, but I'm not at all adventurous in any way. I'm bereaved by suicide and felt these deaths were similar in their lead-up and impact.