Alison Hargreaves and her son

[ssd]

Just watched the program about Alison Hargreaves and her family.

Brilliant and gut wrenching.

It was quite harrowing, it really felt that the dad had already resigned himself that his son would die that way. Kate is quite a sad character in her own way but the bits in Pakistan were very emotional. It only seemed to be the girlfriend who wanted to blame Daniele ( i learned after that he had a baby at home)

I watched this earlier today and felt really sad for Kate, her dad's reaction to being told his son was dead was odd imo and to allow the cameras to keep filming at such a time.

Kate seemed alone with her grief despite what she said at the end, her dad seemed to be trying but didn't seem able to emotionally connect with any of them.

I've just watched it and I don't really see either Alison or Tom as selfish. They both followed what they loved and what made them happy. I think that's a really important lesson and one more of us should follow.
There is a risk to everything we do in life. And it is of course tragically sad when children loose a parent so young. Yes climbing mountains is high risk - but lots of people do high risk activities. Would you say the same about a woman in the forces going into a war zone leaving a young family behind? Or a fisherman going out to sea? Or a professional jockey?
Tom and Alison were both at the top of their sport. As close to being professional athletes as it's possible to be in their field.

I guess no one really thinks they’re going to die even when they are doing something that objectively has a high risk of death, especially if they’re good at at it. Even if a person acknowledges it could kill them they wouldn’t do it if they sincerely felt like it was going to. Think of people going to war - even though you can rationalise that you might die I don’t think people think it will actually happen to them.

I know a family with young kids where the dad died in a tragic accident with young children - you could probably say he was being irresponsible in what he was doing but I think it was more that a couple of things went horribly wrong, on a different day he would still be alive.

I’ve read about this doc but not seen it yet - will def search it up.

I think Tom's girlfriend's description of him as naive around other people was a bit unsettling. I wondered how much guidance his father had actually given him versus pushing his achievements in climbing.

I too found the father's reaction a bit odd,and saying that Tom died doing something he loved was even odder. You wouldn't really wish that on your children.

His sister has an enormous burden to carry for the rest of her life. Very sad.

I don't really see either Alison or Tom as selfish. They both followed what they loved and what made them happy

The last sentence is pretty much the definition of selfish, whether or not you agree with them, or see it as a positive or negative thing.

@saraclara

I don't really see either Alison or Tom as selfish. They both followed what they loved and what made them happy

The last sentence is pretty much the definition of selfish, whether or not you agree with them, or see it as a positive or negative thing.

I disagree. Being happy and content in yourself isn't selfish. Society today demands that we all become martyrs to the chaos of modern life. Doing things we hate to provide a perceived acceptable standard and way of family life. Doing anything different to that is labelled weird or selfish. If more of us followed Alison's example and taught our children to do the things that made us happy - whether that be climbing mountains, or whatever it is they want to achieve - then perhaps society would be a better place. And perhaps fewer mental health issues too!

I’m part way through watching it and thought if they were using Ibrahim to appear in their film, the least they could have done was provide him with some suitable walking gear. The poor chap was obviously elderly and unfit and seemed to be walking in a pair of normal black shoes. I surprised Kate didn’t think of it but maybe they offered and he declined.

He was very emotional wasn't he? It obviously meant a lot to him as well. Seeing the pictures of him carrying kate on his back was lovely.

Yes Ibrahim seemed like a lovely, fatherly man. They were both so emotional when they met. They did seem to have had a bond through the experience of him carrying her even though she was only 4 at the time. I can’t work out their father.

The risks Tom and Daniele seemed to be taking on that last mountain in winter do seem to be insane even to the seasoned climbers interviewed. There seems to be some implication that Daniele negatively influenced Tom.

I think she was an amazing woman.

It was such a moving documentary and so beautifully filmed. I do think unresolved grief probably propelled Tom into the choices he made. But I wouldn't call either of them selfish because we should all be able to follow passions.

This film broke me, so emotional!

Alison Hargreaves should be better known. Reinhold Messner, who is widely considered to be the greatest mountaineer ever, has said that he considers her to be the greatest female climber.

Odd to me that the thread is about AH.

In that film I didn't care about AH dying but was upset about Tom's death. Maybe because I am parent to young men. He died doing what he loved, but so much tragedy to strike the family twice. Argh. So painful.

I don't understand condemning them, but I did wonder if Tom became addicted to climbing because he missed his mom, climbing was a way to connect to her. Or maybe inherited her adrenaline junky trait.

The only moment in film when I felt cross about was parents saying about how much they liked their wild-free children scrambling around on very remote mountains. All I could think about was being miles from medical care if anyone got hurt or was suddenly ill. I didn't like the naivete of anyone suggesting that was some kind of perfect idyllic childhood we should somehow envy.

It was a very compelling film. I agree ssd.

I saw the last half of it and having always thought climbers were inherently selfish, this confirmed it for me. They're not the only ones either. Maybe I'm naive, but how the hell do they afford the lifestyle?

@WeAreTheHeroes

I saw the last half of it and having always thought climbers were inherently selfish, this confirmed it for me. They're not the only ones either. Maybe I'm naive, but how the hell do they afford the lifestyle?

Sponsorship, photography, writing, lecture tours

Julie Tullis was a professional climber/mountaineer and mother, a generation older than Alison Hargreaves. She explores the ethics of mothers of young children continuing in the sport/lifestyle in her autobiography “Clouds on Both Sides” (it is worth reading, if only for the last chapter). In the cases of both Alison and Julie, they had the support and understanding of their partners.

"Sponsorship, photography, writing, lecture tours"

And those come from doing ever more extraordinary (and risky) things. There have always been humans who were driven to do them, be it early migrations, voyages to the unknown or climbing mountains

They lived and breathed the mountains and climbing, they would have been shadows of themselves if forced to quit from it. Does make it extremely hard for their families though. Excellent film and so moving.

It was risky, obsessional behaviour passed on from generation to generation. If this was drug use or alcohol it would be obvious how dysfunctional it is. Because it’s the very middle class hobby of mountaineering it’s venerated as ‘following a dream’ and ‘doing what they love’.

Not saying that it's accurate, but I was listening to an interview with a guy who wrote a book about Alison and her death. He said that Alison's diary implicated her husband in "occasional" spousal abuse. The family disputed it and he does seem to have been (inconsistently?) supportive towards her, but I thought that potentially put the comments about his odd behaviour / his and Katie's dynamic in a new light. I did also feel that the writer was using it with a view to "redeeming" Alison from the negative media coverage about her death, though.

@WeAreTheHeroes

I saw the last half of it and having always thought climbers were inherently selfish, this confirmed it for me. They're not the only ones either. Maybe I'm naive, but how the hell do they afford the lifestyle?

The book I mentioned earlier goes into detail about Alison and Jim’s hand-to-mouth existence, their financial difficulties and how those contributed to the pressures on her to take risks. Risks = headlines, fame and money. She also needed money to gain independence and make a home for herself and the children away from Jim.

@BikeRunSki

Julie Tullis was a professional climber/mountaineer and mother, a generation older than Alison Hargreaves. She explores the ethics of mothers of young children continuing in the sport/lifestyle in her autobiography “Clouds on Both Sides” (it is worth reading, if only for the last chapter). In the cases of both Alison and Julie, they had the support and understanding of their partners.

Julie Tullis also died on K2.