The Handmaid's Tale S4 at C4 pace (no spoilers from Hulu subscribers)

[Faircastle]

A thread for those watching Season 4 of the Handmaid's Tale on Channel 4 starting this evening. There's another thread for those who have already streamed it via Hulu, so it would be good if we could keep this one free of spoilers for episodes beyond those Channel 4 has broadcast.

They’re clearly mayday sympathisers it even part of mayday themselves if they are happy to transport and hide those very high profile handmaids.

@hopeishere the writers / production team have said that the TV series of The Handmaid's Tale is not following the storyline of The Testaments. They decided to run the TV series separately and might even have The Testaments as its own standalone series in the future. This was decided in agreement with Margaret Atwood.

I recognised Mrs Keynes but I couldn't place her. I finally realised she had been in Young Sheldon. I had been really confused and thought I should have recognised her from series 3.

I assumed this Commander is an associate of C. Lawrence and has a reputation as being more lenient / not a serious believer in Gilead but initially willing to accept the personal benefits. The guardian who greeted June specifically asked if she was from Boston. I don't know if it's clear yet why Esther and the Commander live out there and how Esther came to hear about June and May Day. Perhaps the Commander was seen as a bit of a maverick and he was put there where he couldn't be a nuisance?

The Commander must now have dementia as he appeared to not know who Esther is / not have noticed how many Marthas live there, which obviously makes it easier to have June etc there without anyone knowing. But again I'm not sure how the May Day network came to hear of this.

When they discussed the enemy being 6 miles away I thought they meant the nearest Gilead town / area? They can't be too close to areas of conflict / Canada as Commanders had been travelling there on a regular basis to carry out the Gilead sanctioned rape of Esther (a truly awful thought).

June had been carried across Massachusetts and then they were in a van and drove on proper roads with a checkpoint. I assume they're in the equivalent of New Hampshire / Maine. There are some Gilead maps online that show how it relates to modern America / where the areas of conflict etc are.

I am sorry not to have time to read the thread so far as I am sure there are many perceptive comments that have been made.

But somehow I had forgotten, but before half way through realised why I thought this series was a complete wash out in terms of the original book and what might have happened.

Basically it is now a sort of revenge thriller that would normally star some muscley man, and go in for as many scence of violence as possible.

I think the sets, costumes etc., are great. But the plot is written as though by some male adolescent who is more influenced by video games.

I can imagaine why Margaret Atwood stays affiliated to it.

There was so much potential to look into the politicals and ruling of Gilead, and they have dumbed into to filling in time before the next orchestrated acts of violence.

I am sure June would have been changed as a person by what has happened to her. But have any of the other Handmaids turned into phsycopaths.

I did see in some papers who thoughtlessly review the series based on having watched it via (Hulu?) that many people were ending up saying this was a series too far.

And from only having seen episode 1 cant help but agree!

@stumbledin are you talking about series 4? We are very deliberately on this thread only following along at the pace of the channel 4 showings, so we've only watched one episode so far. Please don't comment on things further down the line...

The handmaids are totally justified in their anger, they've had everything, their way of life, human rights, children, everything taken away from them. I was cheering June on with her anger last night. It's only the rage that will het them through this now.

This show always feels a bit uncomfortable watching with DH though. I wonder if M Atwood was abused by a man in the past to be able to write this stuff.

GoingGently - If you read my post you will see that I have only watch episode 1 on a thread about series 4. Okay?

@Whatamess582

Hello

So just one question.

Who was driving the truck at the beginning that they were hiding in?

A sympathetic guardian who is either part of the resistance or at least sympathetic to them.

@stumbledin

If you read any of the interviews with MA or Bruce Miller, they are very clear that only series 1 follows the original book (I say follows, as there were some changes). Series 2 onwards are new material but have been written with MA as a consultant.

Although at the music party two of them were snogging so I assume they are doing their own personal version of “hiding out” as homosexuality is punishable by death in Gilead

I thought I saw this too but it was fleeting, so didn't know if I'd imagined it.

Did anyone else feel like June getting Ester to kill the man was out of character?

I feel like in previous series June would have killed him herself if she'd felt it necessary so that the others didn't have it on their conscience.

Maybe Gilead has finally broken her and she's becoming more like them than she would have wanted at the beginning.

Did anyone else feel like June getting Ester to kill the man was out of character?

Initially yes, it was a “gasp” moment but I realised it makes sense. I didn’t think the “good girl, make me proud” line was in keeping with her character though. That was really sinister.

That's exactly it. I found it very jarring. She's spent three series trying to protect as many women as possible and now she's inciting them to violence and revenge.

I think it was a pragmatic decision to make Esther easier to manage/control. Esther feels like they're 'doing something' so she won't have more potentially dangerous tantrums, and should it become necessary June can blackmail her.

It's not at all 'nice', but June is in survival mode and needs to control Esther to protect herself, the other handmaids, May Day and the chance to rescue Hannah.

I also think she's channeling Aunt Lydia as a way of coping - it's easier to do barbaric things as someone else. She was following AL's execution script so closely I was expecting her to order the group to tear the man apart.

Sorry to repost but apparently I haven't made myself clear.

I have read the book (some years ago).

I dont think series 1 of the tv adaptation was very good at conveying the implications in the book, but was interesting (if mumble viewing).

I think series 2 & 3 lost any essence of a woman's perspective and the writers opted for a sloppy expansion of the plot into some sort of teen orientated revenge movie. It lost its political plotting and went for graphic violence sort of suggesting that if women get angry they will just react like an angry man.

I said something like this towards the end of series 3.

So my post was as much about me forgetting this, and was reminded of it within the first few minutes of episode 1.

And why I said I dont understand why Margaret Atwood is still associated with it, is nearly everything she says is based on her own knowledge and research (ie the original Handmaid's Tale events were all things that have happened to women around the world). The writers of the expanded series aren't interested. They are just mimicing any trashy hollywood revenge thriller. Its just silly. Everything is contrived to build up to another blood and gore scene.

I knew this by the end of series 3, so it was a bit silly of me to expect anything better at the start of series 4.

Trash tv.

@RiaOverTheRainbow

I think it was a pragmatic decision to make Esther easier to manage/control. Esther feels like they're 'doing something' so she won't have more potentially dangerous tantrums, and should it become necessary June can blackmail her.

It's not at all 'nice', but June is in survival mode and needs to control Esther to protect herself, the other handmaids, May Day and the chance to rescue Hannah.

I also think she's channeling Aunt Lydia as a way of coping - it's easier to do barbaric things as someone else. She was following AL's execution script so closely I was expecting her to order the group to tear the man apart.

Ah yes that makes sense. Esther has loose canon potential so June needs to keep her onside.

@stumbledin

Sorry to repost but apparently I haven't made myself clear.

I have read the book (some years ago).

I dont think series 1 of the tv adaptation was very good at conveying the implications in the book, but was interesting (if mumble viewing).

I think series 2 & 3 lost any essence of a woman's perspective and the writers opted for a sloppy expansion of the plot into some sort of teen orientated revenge movie. It lost its political plotting and went for graphic violence sort of suggesting that if women get angry they will just react like an angry man.

I said something like this towards the end of series 3.

So my post was as much about me forgetting this, and was reminded of it within the first few minutes of episode 1.

And why I said I dont understand why Margaret Atwood is still associated with it, is nearly everything she says is based on her own knowledge and research (ie the original Handmaid's Tale events were all things that have happened to women around the world). The writers of the expanded series aren't interested. They are just mimicing any trashy hollywood revenge thriller. Its just silly. Everything is contrived to build up to another blood and gore scene.

I knew this by the end of series 3, so it was a bit silly of me to expect anything better at the start of series 4.

Trash tv.

Well thanks for your reasons for not watching , I am sure there are people who agree with you, but this thread is probably more for people who don’t.

I don't think the scenario is unreasonable.

At some point you'd get sick of the misery, wouldn't you? Maybe a young woman telling you she'd been gang raped multiple times is just the tipping point for June. She's been clever, she got all the kids out and now a crack team of HM are nearly out too. No more Mrs Nice Guy?

@CleanQueen123

That's exactly it. I found it very jarring. She's spent three series trying to protect as many women as possible and now she's inciting them to violence and revenge.

Is it not a progression of the impact of trauma on a person too?

June has changed. All of us would, if we went through what she's gone through.

That's how I'm reading it.

@AnyFucker

Aunt Lydia was beaten up by Janine

Are you not thinking of Emily when she stabbed her in the back and booted her down the stairs when she was at Commander Lawrence's house?

@stumbledin

I am sorry not to have time to read the thread so far as I am sure there are many perceptive comments that have been made.

But somehow I had forgotten, but before half way through realised why I thought this series was a complete wash out in terms of the original book and what might have happened.

Basically it is now a sort of revenge thriller that would normally star some muscley man, and go in for as many scence of violence as possible.

I think the sets, costumes etc., are great. But the plot is written as though by some male adolescent who is more influenced by video games.

I can imagaine why Margaret Atwood stays affiliated to it.

There was so much potential to look into the politicals and ruling of Gilead, and they have dumbed into to filling in time before the next orchestrated acts of violence.

I am sure June would have been changed as a person by what has happened to her. But have any of the other Handmaids turned into phsycopaths.

I did see in some papers who thoughtlessly review the series based on having watched it via (Hulu?) that many people were ending up saying this was a series too far.

And from only having seen episode 1 cant help but agree!

I agree. I turned off halfway through. It’s just endless watching characters getting beaten up or killed with no progression of the story.

Some great points. I totally agree it's the natural progression to living in those conditions.

I think it felt very sudden. Three series of her trying to protect people and survive herself and then bang, opening episode of series four and she's telling a child to kill someone in revenge.

I agree with you @RiaOverTheRainbow. She's now got control of Ester and she's back on top as the leader.

I think I was just surprised that that's how they opened the series.

I don’t know @CleanQueen123 I thought she was already going a little off track towards the end of series 3. She let Mrs Lawrence kill herself and killed Commander Winslow. So maybe this has been building a while. She really pushed her advantage over the commander Lawrence and she kind of bulldozed Mayday into the plane and kids. I seem to remember they were reluctant. I feel like this is probably a natural evolution after what she has been exposed to.

But I also think Esther is a sociopath. She was talking about killing people with June when she arrived, with sepsis. Perhaps she has lost her mind due to the brutality she has experienced too…. But there is something about her I’m not sure about.

I also think killing Commander Winslow probably tipped her over the edge too….. like she has broken the seal. Plus on top of that Hannah is being raised by a Commander and his wife… and therefore will likely be a commanders wife herself one day… so I think June probably is really seeing Esther as Hannah… (hence the banana comment).

My take on Season 4 episode 1 (June):
June has been shot. She has nearly died and she is still in a lot of pain. The other handmaids seem to think it's all over and they can relax now. June knows they can't. The horror of Gilead is right there on the farm with them as shown by the treatment of Mrs Keyes - still basically a child. At some point, June realises that the fight continues and she has to lead it. She's having to drag the strength for that from somewhere. It's brutal.
Obviously this is just setting up the storylines for the rest of the season, but there is plenty to explore.

I think something genuinely broke in June when Esther told her what they’d done to her. It was the proverbial straw.

I also think she saw an opportunity to give Esther what she wanted (revenge, but also power, and basically to kill someone) in order to keep her onside.