Three identical strangers - spoilers ahoy, so don’t say you weren’t warned!

[Lordfrontpaw]

Ok - now we can discuss! Film and documentary...

Can’t believe they were able to get away with playing with people’s lives like that

I studied psychology at uni and found twin studies fascinating - I never dreamed that (some of) these were engineered.

They had absolutely no regret or guilt about it did then?

I think it was very, very interesting and very scary!

I think that it was a different age when they did not think it was playing with people's lives and playing 'God' in a sense.

One thing that really stood out for me was the two adults who were young adults involved in the study and were willing to speak out said and did things which I felt were very inappropriate. Like the women talking about how sexy or attractive the 'lead doctor' was on the study!

The man was a bit better but he also laughed a lot and read out part of a report, which I did not feel was appropriate (even though he did not identify which brother it was).

@Lordfrontpaw cross posted with you! Thanks for starting the thread.

@ineedaholidaynow

Can’t believe they were able to get away with playing with people’s lives like that I know the fast they could seal the results in that way! Fortunately, they have now been opened up.

I thought the aunt came off very well and her words about being Jewish and holocaust (the experiments done to Jews etc) and the fact that this was a Jewish adoption agency was very, very chilling and totally apt.

Noticed one of them held the microphone in his left hand, wonder if one was left handed? One minute in...

What channel was it on? I really want to see it after reading the shocking story.

And when they said ‘they all had older sisters...’ 😱

Channel 4

Thanks!

They chose the families so they had similar siblings didn't they?

The siblings were also adopted so they knew the parenting style already. That was the final twist I think.

Manufactured the families

It was chilling. And so sad, especially the accounts of how the boys would headbang as babies in their cots. Missing each other

I thought the man who had been involved in the study as a graduate was creepy af.

Thanks for starting the thread OP

I loved the documentary and it certainly raised a lot of questions.
So...
Eddy Galland who committed suicide at 34
had the middle class traditional environment you might expect to have positive outcomes but with a strict disciplinarian father as a teacher
(Elliott his father was gaunt/placid in the film but admits was strict in parenting style nurture)
but it was claimed Eddy had a manic depressive nature, wrecked car etc Had already left college. But he was funny, had charisma - did the front of house restaurant role. Wife adored him. But underneath the charm there was anger/darkness - went to a psych ward. nature?
Street smarts - no health insurance, used Bobby's.
Not much mention of his Mum apart from: 'omg they're coming out of the woodwork'
Family important and he was the driving force for finding birth mum.
Eddy felt betrayed by Bobby

Bobby Shafran (gaunt now) old car ironically (wealthy family) found out he was twin at college/rich GP devoted but busy. Mum attorney.
Had the most privileged background of the three but that does not seem to pan out with outcomes. Had been involved in a murder - the documentary does not touch upon this fully but the case details are available online and they aren't pretty
Stepmother appears. Father Mort appears.
Wife says he had raw intelligence.
reserved? Bobby left the business/felt pushed out

Eddy/David were very similar

David Kellman (fatter now) third quadruplet blue collar but most gregarious/warm. Dad: ''I have 2 more sons''...nurture David's Dad died and had been the sticking glue
Does that parenting style protect against adversity and genetics? Aunt also comes across well. Wife - Janet.
David had also been in a psych ward nature
It is inferred that birth mum may have had some mental health problems/problems with alcohol.
David became reluctant wrt testing at 10-11
In the restaurant he ran the kitchen

Questions the doc raised:

1. Were they looking for similarities between themselves for a closer bond (cigarettes/food/women/thoughts and ideas?) confirmation bias
2. But (as many agree now wrt nature vs nurture) Genetic influence high: Were all three moved to behaviours they were unconscious of?

Cannot fight nature/as opposed to free will that we influence our own paths

As for the psych reading from his notes...Loud energetic autonomy - IQ and strength, puts down parents
Showing off new cycle etc rough intense hyperaggressiveness Parents no appropriate control over actions.
I'm putting my money on Bobby who annoyed me so much with his ''it was me who never met this person*, wasn't present, it was peer pressure, pressuring me into covering for them, telling the police stories for them that pulled me right into it''
www.leagle.com/decision/198150554ny2d4511459
*She was a vulnerable 83 year old lady.
Bobby was said to have driven the actual murderer, allegedly knowing his plans to rob her and kill her if he had to and then later agreeing on an alibi and he also helped sell the rings.
www.leagle.com/decision/198150554ny2d4511459

As for the study data records having been previously sealed until 2065, and notes being given finally, being heavily redacted....crock of shit and cynical me says designed to protect from lawsuits (the remaining brothers are considering legal action now iirc).

interesting article about the doc here:
www.jpost.com/Diaspora/The-disturbing-backdrop-of-Three-Identical-Strangers-564705

@IhaveBrilloHair Sorry I didn't respond on the first thread - I am sorry there are difficulties. If you wish to share, please do. I often wonder whether there are the same Golden Child/Scapegoat patterns and similar sibling rivalries within all families. I know from reading Lemn Sissay's accounts, that it isn't all plain sailing and he was hurt by his experiences.

@ineedaholidaynow Your parents That's the kind of thing I do to my DH...if the kids are naughty it's due to his genetics, if they're good it's down to my ace parenting

The truth be told, if you are now wondering with the above posts, why the documentary hit home so much...I suffer from depression and have done for many years. Nature - my grandfather committed suicide. Nurture - there were parts of my childhood that were abusive.
So I wonder how many of my mental health issues were down to basic DNA and how many were a direct and reasonable response to certain life events.
The answer is probably in the doc - a mixture of the two - but it would be nice to break the pattern, if there is one. I noted that even with David's father's nurturing protecting him to a certain degree, he still ended up in the psych ward at one point.
I don't want my three kids to have similar issues to me but I look at my eldest and see a ticking time bomb sometimes.
I am not sure, if the case study in three identical strangers shows a more causal link between hereditary and mental health outcomes, why that could not be put out into the open. It would hardly be groundbreaking given that alcoholism/schizophrenia and other conditions are thought to have a genetic link.
Splitting up twins or triplets is enough of a mindfuck (headbanging in cots) to skew the results in the first place though. At what point do abandonment issues play a part in the future?

@GruffaIoChrimbo I am sorry to hear about your abusive elements to childhood and the mental health issues.

I had OCD s a teen and still do really but it is controlled (by me) and understood (by me and society) so much more that I do think that makes a difference.

My dd is very troubled, on the spectrum and various issues. So i know what you mean about wanting to find answers. Like you I think it is both, nurture and nature.

In answer to your earlier post may I ask why do you sat - "Eddy felt betrayed by Bobby"??

Questions the doc raised:
"1. Were they looking for similarities between themselves for a closer bond (cigarettes/food/women/thoughts and ideas?) confirmation bias"

IMHO yes, I did wonder if the answering question the same way and foot positions were put on in the show.

"2. But (as many agree now wrt nature vs nurture) Genetic influence high: Were all three moved to behaviours they were unconscious of?
Cannot fight nature/as opposed to free will that we influence our own paths"

IMHO nurture v nature is almost impossible to distinguish. It is more nurture and nature. They all had the same nature yet one did not end up n the psych ward and two did not end up committing suicide. So nurture does count for something. Yet the wrestling hobby/careers (?) were probably the same because they were well built strapping lads. Tiny guys much much less likely to get into high school wrestling.

So nurture AND nature both play their part.

Apparently they were actually quads but one died at birth.

Hi italian
They all had the same nature yet one did not end up in the psych ward and two did not end up committing suicide. So nurture does count for something. Fair point. The one who did not end up in the psych ward (Bobby) is fascinating in terms of him having been involved in criminality when he had a lawyer mum and GP dad - his father has got remarried at some point. I do wonder what their parenting style was and whether he lacked appropriate boundaries growing up. Nonetheless what was done to them all was horrendous and I do hope the two surviving brothers get compensated financially at some point. It's a bit like a Sliding Doors situation: what would have happened had the blue-collar but enormously empathetic Dad adopted all three brothers together?
I said that Eddy felt betrayed by Bobby as this was mentioned in the documentary - that he resented Bobby leaving the business they had all set up but Bobby himself felt pushed out.

Interesting.

www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2018/10/sundance_favorite_three_identi.html

@GruffaIoChrimbo I cannot find any reference to Bobbu's criminality. I think it was mentioned in the film and Not woken of further. Do you k is if it was proven and if it was true?

I mean...

I think it was mentioned in the film and not spoken of further. Do you know if it was proven and if it was true?

I linked to the court case transcript above italian
www.leagle.com/decision/198150554ny2d4511459
Robert Shafran is Bobby and it was more involvement than just covering for someone. Yes, you can make mistakes as a teen and yes, you can get in with bad people but if I have understood it correctly then much of the testimony above came directly from Shafran himself.

I read your article - does not surprise me that 6 hours'interviewing was diluted to 5 minutes and edited in the direction the director wants to take it to make for a better story - that's just what documentary makers do - Michael Moore has been accused of the same kind of technique.
I respected the fact that he was prepared to talk about it on camera, no idea how much he was paid to do so. The laughter was unfortunate and showed him in a bad light - whether it was nervous laughter or not or trying to make light of something so serious, I've no idea. Claiming a poor edit is always difficult as you still said/did those things/reacted that way but anyone in production knows how a story or journey can be guided to affect the audience response.

Very said really in the end. I wasn't expecting it to be so sad