Responsible Child

[covetingthepreciousthings]

Couldn't see a thread, anyone watching?

BBC2 now, based on a true story.

I agree Equanimitas - a 30 year old man with a mind of a 12 year old being unfit to stand trial really stuck with me.

The programme was very depressing. Very sad because I know things like this go on. I also do think that people are now better educated about what might lead someone to kill...slightly less judgmental. I often wonder what would happen in the Bulger case if it happened today.

I hope it does encourage debate and maybe change. Shocking that in N Korea the age that a child can be tried is 14...and yet in the UK it is 10.

Yes. Kids should have been placed on the 'at risk' register let alone considered to be 'in need' - in need just means needing services in order to develop.
And I think it was demonstrated that yes children do often get asked in meetings etc in this case probably because the dippy social worker wouldn't accept that there were risks etc and the teacher who was played brilliantly knew that there were problems and the children (ray) was suffering.
Unfortunately as someone else said it's not unusual for families to be left in abusive situations. Its just luck that things like this don't happen more often. We only hear about cases that get into the media but honestly? There are far more shocking cases that either don't get reported or exposed. Beyond sad. I'm afraid I have no sympathy for agencies that are supposed to protect children. It's not just overstretched services that are underfunded. It's often poor practice as clearly demonstrated in this drama.
And I hope that the social worker and department she represented were held accountable but all too often they aren't so I'm not holding out for that one.

And sadly I suspect that 'Ray' us getting a much Better start and life than he would've done staying in that situation. I think the hope for me was the relationship that he was developing with his key worker? And the way that he took the "planets" drawing into his new life - that was powerful wasn't it? Something that stayed with him throughout, his belief that there was something bigger.
This is the thing that will help children from backgrounds like this - an ability to remove themselves somehow from the immediate unhealthy situation. It's well known that clever children are often more resilient. This was the thing that will help him.
I have huge sympathey for the brother as others have expressed. He was abused wasn't he. I don't think he should've been held responsible either actually. But the law is an ass isn't it. No justice or understanding of what torture they went through. I can only hope that his mental health issues as were bound to have occurred in this environment were addressed & he'll have a chance at a life too.

That was such a hard watch. The mum was a classic case of learned helplessness in the face of the stepdad's unrelenting vileness. I wanted to shake her. The lad who played Ray was superb though.

I have only just watched this and haven't looked into the real story.

But I did think there wasn't enough explanation about how the new family and the old family happened.

I sort of assumed that the mother probably had already experienced domestic violence, and sort of accepted this as the price of a pretend happy family. She was obviously medicated and the step dad did a lot of the day to day caring. And hadn't at least one other child been taken into care.

It made me think of those women who time after time have a child, it is taken in to care, so they have another one also taken into care.

Many of us are fed the idea that the ideal is a family, but dont necessarily have the opportunity or maturity to achieve it. So make do with something that approximates it.

This is partly influenced but what the mother said (which I had to play back 4 times and then put the subtitles on) that on some level she didn't care about the step dad being killed or that her sons had done it to proect her because it meant they were no longer all together ie approximating a family.

Everyone seems to assume we will or are natural parents. And everyone assumes we will somehow set up a family.

Nobody every talks about the fact that some of us maybe just aren't suited to do it.

And for too many women still, this is still fed to us as being are top goal in life.

Sometimes the BBC gives you a proper drama, with no drawn-out episodes or fanfare. This was one of them. Powerful stuff.

I agree wholeheartedly @ stumbledin.
The Mum in the drama, was portrayed as someone who wasn't caring for herself (the scene where Ray takes her a cup of tea in bed) never mind caring for her children.
Caring for small (and big!) children is hardwork, relentless and can cause spats between even the most loving, stable couples when they're sleep deprived and just plain exhausted and emotionally drained.
If a couple are dysfunctional, chaotic and not the most capable of folk to start with, adding children to the mix is akin to throwing fuel on the fire.
Some people should just not have children - harsh, but true.
Yes, the rewards can be immense but we should stop selling the myth that it's all sweetness and cuddles.

Wingedharpy - yes, totally.

And of course the terrible effect of domestic violence. So many people ask "why didn't she leave".

At the end of Gold Digger (which I am not recommending!) the woman who is the main character says that of all the things she regrets in deciding to not acknowledge or talk about the domestic violence she experienced is the cost to the children. It didn't help them to pretend nothing was or had happened.

I haven't actually commented on the young boy himself as it is to difficult to imagine being in his position. I would have liked to have known more about the older brother he was clearly traumatised by the violence he was witnessing in the home.

And I am not saying it is the same but in light of the Sally Challon verdict aren't the two boys in the case in a similar situation?

stumbledin - I too thought of the Sally Challen case. And also felt that if she was convicted of manslaughter (ultimately) so was Nathan/Joshua. Not murder.

The older boy needed help - locking him up for 14 years is incredibly hard. Interesting how a lot of these posts are as much about the older boy as Ray.

The murder this was based on happened 5 minutes away from me. By all accounts the brothers were lovely kids but seriously, seriously let down by SS. ‘Ray’ is now out, has a new identity and does not live locally.

It was a horrific case and I drive by the house regularly. It has been sold.

The drama was incredibly powerful and the actor playing Ray was outstanding.

What struck me about both boys were that they were heavily dissociated. The detached look in Ray and Nathan was felt.

Just finished watching, had to do it to two sittings as really upsetting and it has stayed in my thoughts.
What stuck out to me was Nathaniel was an adult and had a job, perhaps could have moved out, but stayed to protect his mum. Couldn't leave but antagonised and tormented by his step-dad, living in the attic like a ghost. Also the scene where the step-dad is let back into the home and Nathaniel says 'how could this happen' really broke my heart. It seems like that was the moment he realised everyone had failed him and his brother, and this realisation triggered everything else.
I thought the programme was good at alluding to what had happened and still getting across the point that the boys were severely let down, fearful, and desperate. I do wish they showed the part just before Nathaniel knocks on Ray's door saying 'Mum said we need to get locks on our doors because he's gone to the shed...etc'. I'd like to know whether their mum did actually say that, or if Nathanial was acting out of (justified) paranoia/PTSD. I guess the step dad was asleep at this point, so he hadn't gone to the shed to get the axe?

Cried throughout. It was heartbreaking and as others say, knowing this is real life for some children is too awful to contemplate. Brilliant acting. Wondering what we can do to help others in this situation now that services will be further stretched/cut under a Tory Government

@SlimGin I think he said it because he'd just got to point where he was living in fear all the time and his mind was gone if you know what I mean. I don't think it's really something his mum said

I cried so much

@purpleme12 ah right yes that makes sense, thank you

My father was an abusive man. I remember thinking if he ever touched me or my mother again I would kill him as he slept.
He’s still alive. My mother has since died. I hate him. When he dies I will not go to the funeral. This programme depicted my childhood.

Derbyallen - so sorry to hear that. I said up thread I couldn't imagine surviving a live like that.

But what is brilliant is that you have - and are taking decisions that means you keep free of such a terrible person.

@stumbledin Thank you. Both my brothers and I left Northern Ireland to join the Military. We all had successful careers and lives. I think we were able to compartmentalise our childhood and of course over the years he mellowed.
My mother had the last laugh. When she was ill in hospital with cancer and knew her days were numbered, she refused to let him on the ward to visit and died without letting him say goodbye. He was heartbroken but we understood.
You are right .. the key is not to become a victim. Thank you for your kind words. It’s rare I speak of this.

Just watched this. It has broken me! Maybe it’s the pregnancy but in floods of tears all through the court case.

The young actor was absolutely brilliant. I expect we’ll see a lot more of him in the future.

What a sad, sad story. I actually felt huge relief when the boy went to prison (not sure that’s the correct term?) and his interactions with his kind support worker. Although I’m sure it isn’t an easy life at least his basic needs are finally being met for and hopefully he’ll get the therapy he needs to live a normal life one day.

My Dad actually went to prison at a similar age (back in the late 50’s) for stealing to feed his younger siblings. They lived in extreme poverty and he did it to survive. He has always said it was the best thing that ever happened to him. A man there identified that he was a clever boy and encouraged him to fulfil his potential. I expect if he’d never had that experience, life would have taken a very different turn for him.

Oh my goodness. What a powerful, emotional, painful watch. I was in floods of tears for those poor boys.