Responsible Child

[covetingthepreciousthings]

Couldn't see a thread, anyone watching?

BBC2 now, based on a true story.

@EoinMcLovesCakeJumper : I thought exactly the same at the ending.
Given such an awful start in life, then going in to the YOI where he would arguably, witness more agression, violence etc etc, how can any human being be expected to develop into a well rounded, stable, fully functioning adult?
It's easy to see how, given the "right" circumstances, these patterns just continue.
Heartbreakingly sad.

There is a lot of luck involved in life despite it being trotted out continually that success and happiness is all down to hard work and applying yourself......and it starts with the family that you are (un)lucky enough to be born into.
Some poor kids just do not stand a chance in the lottery of life.

@fridgegrazer I think because the mum usually does anything to protect her young but she just sits there and ignores whats going on. The bastard step dad is so obviously hateful its a given that viewers would be angry with him.
She was the only other adult around who could help but she chose not to... I bloody hated her in it!
It also brought home a little how my mum didnt protect us.. not as bad as her, we were fed, clean, clothed etc. There was definitely emotional neglect though.

I'm watching it now. I'm not sure if I can finish it, it's really very upsetting.

The acting is superb. The young lad who plays Ray is outstandingly good.

I thought that the Mum probably had depression given her disinterest in everything, and was possibly medicated up to the eyeballs.
The older son had depression too - it was mentioned in the script - and there is often a family history involved in poor mental health.
What's the answer though?
Do you remove her children at birth?
This may (or may not), help them but will surely contribute to her depression.
Compulsory sterilisation? !!!
And how should child offenders be dealt with?

Parenting should be a bit more on the PSHE curriculum at secondary school.
Parenting classes if a mum is struggling with a baby and depression
If you recall the scene where the SW does a home assessment because the more competent parent in the house has been removed for attacking his stepson with an axe. That was the moment when intervention should have happened. Supervision of the mum
The testimony of the SW that the family seemed happier when the violent step dad returned. That should have been a siren.

Just finished. Very thought-provoking.

Difficult questions are easy - that's why this show was so good, lots to mull over.

Re the mum: no mother gets their DC removed for depression or any other illness, unless she's incredibly ill and not likely to come out of hospital for the foreseable/at all. I know someone who was in care for two years after DM had a terrible car crash and had to learn to walk and talk again.

Usually neglect is caused by drugs/drink/both - which can be combined with low IQ and the compulsory violent stepdad(s).

I feel anger towards the mum because you would think she would not want the stepfather back in the house after trying to kill her son.

However, should also feel anger towards their dad, where was he? Why would he also let his child live with another adult who had tried to kill him.

I think Coercive control should apply to children too. The boy was obviously damaged by his upbringing and was very concerned about bringing an end to the tyranny he was living under.

So much failure with police SS allowing that man anywhere near that family.

Perhaps the mother had some form of PTSD it is very hard living in an abusive relationship. It changes people.

As a PP said, if living with Mum was the better of the 2 options for that boy, how fkd up was Dad's house?
Regarding her presumed depression - I don't think she felt anger because she wasn't feeling anything.
Her emotions were flat, her voice (when she did speak) was monotone.
I wasn't suggesting for one moment that depressed Mums should have their children removed.
I was asking, at what point does removing the child(ren) become the best option if the care giver is struggling? - and, how can it be done in a way that doesn't feel, to the child, that they are the ones being punished?
Mum, Dad and Step-dad, were probably all brought up in similar households sadly.

A while back, somebody mentioned that they asked Ray if everything was OK while his mum/stepdad was there. I think Social Work 101 would say that this is a terrible idea, but it happened in this case to illustrate how badly the system let him down.

Billy Barratt aka Ray, is apparently Shakin Stevens' grandson.

I thought this was done really well and was very thought provoking.

I was disgusted by Rays mother who was beyond useless at looking after herself or her kids. Equally depressed by how all the services meant to protect children let him down.

The whole set up was just so fucked up, poor kids didn't stand a chance 😥

A very sobering programme. It is certainly well worth watching though slow moving. I watched some of it again from beginning in case I missed bits. I was just left feeling numb at the end. I didn't understand the mother.

I’ve been thinking about this today. I don’t know how many details are true.

But 1) the older stepson living in his horrible attic space, no windows and terrified of coming down for fear of the stepdad.
2) Ray having such an awful Dad that his Mum’s with stepdad was his better option.
3) institutional blindness and neglect written throughout the whole thing
4) at the end of it - stepdad dead, older brother in prison, Ray in YOI, mum on her own, younger sisters in care - separately or together? A whole family now scattered to the winds.

What a sad awful thing this was

Yes @HelloYouTwo - huge sympathy in the Wingedharpy household for the older son. No wonder he was depressed and whatever horrors Ray had been subjected/witness to, presumably the older brother had had it for longer.
I also wonder what happens to "Ray" when he is released, aged 20?
Does he just get a room in a HMO, a weeks worth of dole money and will just be left to get on with it?

Sadly this kind of family environment is all too common for British kids. Mum was likely extremely traumatised and dissociating when stepdad kicked off, hence seeming quite blank. She was probably also thinking she was protecting the two youngest by trying to keep the peace. We saw Scott batter the mum too.

Also sadly, social care is under enormous pressure and mistakes do increasingly get made, including poor practice as shown in the programme.

I actually thought Ray was pretty resilient given what he'd been exposed to! But yes, exposure to more violence in YOI won't help his future prospects. Superbly acted by that boy though.

A heartbreaking drama but pretty factual if my experience is anything to go by

I also wonder what happens to "Ray" when he is released, aged 20?
Does he just get a room in a HMO, a weeks worth of dole money and will just be left to get on with it?

Yes I also wondered this, I hope he gets some kind of support, but sadly he probably will just be left to get on with it.

We live near a YOI, and see young lads at the bus stop, heading out to life alone, or worse, back to the life that neglected them previously, with their probation officer looking in next week. It doesn't give me much hope.

Six years in, Jerome (Ray) is now 19, free and living Uber a new identity. I hope he's ok.

Sun link I'm afraid, but this is the original story:
www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10560275/real-murder-responsible-child-killer-bbc-ellis-brothers/amp/

*under not Uber.

There are thousands of kids living like this in the U.K.

@Queenofthree DH and I had that conversation tonight. I was telling him about the programme and that he should watch it and it led on to a conversation about how so many children are living like that. So many children are unprotected.

It really is horrific that we try children in adult courts. I thought the psychiatrist made a very telling point when he said that if an adult with the mind of a 13 year old child had been charged with murder he would not be thought fit to stand trial, yet somehow it's OK for a 13 year old child to be tried as an adult.

It's a very difficult watch. That poor family.