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Telly addicts

His Dark Materials

905 replies

AllGoodDogs · 19/07/2019 22:50

New BBC adaptation, looks so good, can't wait Grin trailer here -

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10162256439035553&id=683285552&sfnsn=mo

OP posts:
purpleme12 · 21/12/2019 21:44

I don't get it why why does it give an odd impression just cos he's black as well?

colouringinpro · 21/12/2019 21:55

Am dreading the Roger part Sad

PoultryBallot · 21/12/2019 22:16

Please spoil for me so I can be prepared about the Roger part. I get incessant questions and field them as best I can as we usually watch on catch up and I read reviews and this thread. Kids are desperate to watch it live as no school on Monday so need to be prepared.

Puffinhead · 21/12/2019 22:23

I also want to know about Roger

Puffinhead · 21/12/2019 22:24

Just googled it Sad

ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule · 21/12/2019 22:29

SurpriseSparDay er... what? I think you're reading way too much into that, love.

purpleme12 · 21/12/2019 22:32

I don't want to know about Roger! Although now I feel like I can guess

99RedBalloonsFloating · 21/12/2019 22:47

@SurpriseSparDay I think by saying now in the books Will is assumed to be white (purely because most people in England are) you really mean that you assumed Will to be white?

The only element of his physical colouring given in the books is that he has dark eyebrows and hair, and dark eyes. So he could well be black, or biracial, or have one of a range of ethnic origins. I didn't assume him to be white and was pleasantly surprised to see a young person of colour cast in this leading role.

Regarding your white piano teacher / black boxing coach point: there have been a number of changes made to the storyline in adaptation for the screen, on reason being the need to "show" some important themes and elements in a way that doesn't involve long narrative description. It's key to Will's character that he is fierce and brave, so swapping the piano lessons / teacher for boxing lessons / teacher at this introductory point makes a lot of sense. It also allowed for a scene of conflict and physical fight with another boy to be shown at the same time we can see that he has a relationship of trust with this coach. So lots of important themes introduced very neatly in a few scenes by making that change.

As for your concern that casting the boxing coach as black suggests that the only person Will can trust is another black person - I honestly think that makes no sense. Black men in this country suffer an appalling amount of stereotyping from some quarters. Is that perhaps where you are coming from in your worry about a black male actor being cast as a person of trust?

99RedBalloonsFloating · 21/12/2019 22:49

And why did you assume the piano teacher was white anyway?

ShinyGiratina · 22/12/2019 00:15

The book just describes a piano teacher. Will's life is quite isolated to avoid too many questions being raised. I didn't mind the re-jig to establishing a trust for the boxing teacher and it does fit Will being a character that is prepared to defend himself (iirc, historically he has a scrap and comes out as the clear winner so people don't tend to try it on with him as he will fight to win if necessary). Music lessons have probably become more niche over time. It doesn't change the underlying point of Will and his mum being scared, and Will having little support network to entrust her to.

Having spent most of my life in areas that are 95%+ white British, in the absence of leading descriptions such as names or physical descriptions, I'll admit to tending to assume white mental images of characters as that's predominantly what I see locally. Will and his mum have brought the characters to life impeccably. I was initially surprised at Lord Boreal, due to the privilage of his character in Will's/ our world, but he is superbly acted and therefore has been cast brilliantly. None of the casting has jarred once it's got going, and when I've had a much-loved book vivid in my head for years, there's always a bit of readjusting to seeing an actor being a character, but while some have been different to my imagination, no one has felt glaringly wrong which I can often get with screen adaptions.

SurpriseSparDay · 22/12/2019 00:53

99RedBalloonsFloating your question regarding a person of trust was definitely not in my thoughts!

I absolutely love the casting of Will and his mother. And am fully appreciative of the additional story being told through replacing piano playing with boxing. (Though I’d have said the qualities required to play an instrument well - patience, concentration, imagination, bravery - were exactly those Will would need for the next stage oh his life. But I can’t remember how he felt about it in the books ...)

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 22/12/2019 01:21

The thing that I found the most different is that in the show the coach has seen his mum and knows that she's struggling.

In the books, he goes to the piano teacher out of desperation, because he thinks she's kind and there's nobody else he can think of.

I'm not saying the boxing coach isn't kind, it's just slightly different to him turning up with her out of the blue having never ever let any adult know she's not well before.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 22/12/2019 01:26

Oh and also an elderly female piano teacher couldn't have stopped him leaving. His boxing coach probably could!

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 22/12/2019 01:37

And (pontificating after Christmas drinks here!) I don't think the point was that he had a deep trusting relationship with her, it was to show how isolated he was. That he had to leave his mother with somebody he didn't know that well, but thought would be kind.

Changing it to somebody who knows more about his life, while not bad in any way, does change the story quite a lot.

SurpriseSparDay · 22/12/2019 01:40

True ...

I guess the change was necessary partly because the information about his mother’s state of mind needed to be conveyed through dialogue and action on screen - whereas in the book we learned it all through Will’s thoughts.

Also the isolated child trope was perhaps too fairy-tale-ish for the screen portrayal of Will in his world. It seems more contemporary and grounded for at least a little of his predicament to be known to (a member of) staff at school.

ShinyGiratina · 22/12/2019 07:05

The only pedantic gripe I could make about that is modern safeguarding policy and expectations... but abiding by that in 2019 would destroy the story, and many others Grin I'll let artistic license flow Wink

SurpriseSparDay · 22/12/2019 08:13

I was thinking exactly that while I was writing my last post, ShinyGiratina. But yes, the school authorities getting involved would be a very different story!

CountFosco · 22/12/2019 08:30

The only pedantic gripe I could make about that is modern safeguarding policy and expectations

But isn't this a class issue? Will is from the established middle class (something private piano lessons show rather well) and is a child carer rather than a neglected or abused child. So although SS might be a concern from Will's viewpoint, from the school's viewpoint he's doing well enough and is coping so no need to rip the family apart.

SurpriseSparDay · 22/12/2019 08:37

Piano lessons and a pocket watch shaped alethiometer

v

Boxing and a trashy gold almost-mobile phone.

Which reminds me - the speed at which that thing is throwing out answers - she might as well be googling ... Xmas Hmm

CountFosco · 22/12/2019 09:34

TBF it threw out answers quickly in the book as well, and it was written the days of Netscape.

I was googling (as you do) and didn't realuse the American title 'The Golden Compass' was yet another Paradise Lost reference and not to the thing you use to find north:

Then staid the fervid wheels, and in his hand
He took the golden compasses, prepared
In God's eternal store, to circumscribe
This universe, and all created things:
One foot he centered, and the other turned
Round through the vast profundity obscure

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 22/12/2019 11:46

I thought it was weird they haven't show her specifically putting the three hands into place, often she only seems to move one. It's easier to understand how it works when you see she can combine meanings.

ShinyGiratina · 22/12/2019 22:50

Lyra has a massive advantage over the Magisterum with her instinctive use of the alethiometer compared to the usual readers with their books and working through layers of meaning. She does speed up using it between her time with the gyptians and by the end of the book.

Roger had me in tears tonight. DS(6) grasped that he'd died qucker than DS(9).

Much better ending than the film which totally stuffed it up Grin

purpleme12 · 22/12/2019 22:59

I can't remember how the film ended now (and haven't read the books)

noblegiraffe · 22/12/2019 23:09

He took the golden compasses, prepared In God's eternal store, to circumscribe This universe, and all created things:

What?! Oh now I am really annoyed at the Americans. I always thought The Golden Compass was a shit reference to the alethiometer.

What is described in Paradise Lost is clearly a pair of compasses. The mathematical equipment used to draw circles. A compass is something you use to find North, a pair of compasses is something entirely different.

Annoys me enough when the kids I teach get it wrong.

CountFosco · 22/12/2019 23:31

noblegiraffe Yeah, that was my reaction too.