His Dark Materials

[AllGoodDogs]

New BBC adaptation, looks so good, can't wait trailer here -

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10162256439035553&id=683285552&sfnsn=mo

Yeah but Lyra and Pan talk all the time. She would say "we" not "I" for example. The daemons are absent

I've got it on again as DH was out and the DCs wanted it live. There are dæmons in the background. I think in the book, dæmons are introduced when there's a new character, but there's not much attention to them if there isn't a focus on them.

Some are carried around subtly, others probably curl up in a corner out of the way

There was a photo of Will.

shiny I disagree. Most of the people who have a name have a named demon who is active when they are active.

I've not rtft, but the reveal that John Parry and Stanislaus Grumman are the same person is a big plot twist from the second book (I think - certainly not the first, anyway). It's a big deal when it comes, but here it was almost meaningless because we haven't met Will and the focus is still supposed to be primarily on Lyra.

I'm generally quite relaxed about adaptations not being completely faithful, but I think this was a mistake. There's more than enough story in Northern Lights to fill the first series, we don't need spoilers from other books yet!

Really enjoyed this episode.

Pullman was a producer on this wasn’t he? Wonder why he wasn’t bothered about them introducing stuff From book 2 so early.

I think The Subtle Knife was where I learned about trepanning.

Oh, yes, I meant to say that last week — his thought process as to whose skull it was (or wasn't) and why Asriel would show them a random skull, was really opaque!

My DD wants to know if daemons aren't set until puberty how come Lyra's is the same all the time.I get they can't show to many but having Lyra's not change is a nonsense.
I also always saw Ma Costa as a strong woman,not only is she not strong she seems to be alone.

My DD wants to know if daemons aren't set until puberty how come Lyra's is the same all the time.I get they can't show to many but having Lyra's not change is a nonsense.

He's not - he was a moth flyIng through the air vents at Mrs Coulter''s, and he's been a bird at one point while they were escaping from there, but that's about the only time, and it wasn't blatant.

Pan changes from his usual white ermine to the bigger greyish pine marten quite often. At least, I think that’s what they are.

There’s a link near the start of this thread to a Radio Times (how old fashioned that sounds now!) interview with the adaptation creators. In that or one of the accompanying articles they describe how challenging it was to fully portray Pan’s constant morphing from one animal to another. In the end they had to restrict themselves to just a few significant animals at crucial moments.

I’m torn. If they say having everyone’s daemon on screen all the time was unfeasible then I have to believe that. But I fo wonder if they couldn’t have found a different ‘screen form’ for them - perhaps less literal but more ...wieldy.

I’m fine with the Subtle Knife stuff being included, the timeline makes sense and it brings good context to Lord Boriel’s character.

Also like Anne Marie Duff’s Ma Costa and disagree with the PP that she’s not strong: she’s functioning and caring for Tony and now Lyra whilst her son has been kidnapped!

This one was fast paced and interesting IMO. Dislike Pan v rarely changing.

Pan isn't actually a pine marten in the books at this point — he's a wildcat quite a lot though. Surely she'd know what a pine marten was if it was a form he took a lot.

In the first book it’s mentioned a few times that Pan‘a favourite shape to take is an ermine and he takes this form quite a lot (had to google what that was and that’s the form he’s in a lot in the show - I thought he was a ferret )

Just chipping in to say, that I absolutely LOVE the opening credits. They are so good! There is so much detail and clues, and with the music it's so dramatic and exciting. Reminds me a bit of GoT credits (though I was never a massive fan) or a James Bond opening with the amount of detail. Absolutely gives me the chills!

Personally I think it makes sense that they introduce Will's story concurrently with Lyra's. As much as i love the books, and readers learns to love Will really quickly, it is a little jarring the way book two starts with a unrecognisable character with no apparent connection to the story. I know its a common device, but it is jarring.

In the book Will thinks about when the men started coming to his house to badger his mum for info but its not explained why at that stage because Will doesn't know. In the series that clearly must have started happening at the same time as Lyra's story kicked off and now we get to see it happening in chronological order.

introducing Will before we've even met Iorek Byrnison - in the books Lyra's attachment to Iorek is heavily established and then she compares Will to Iorek on several occasions, allowing the reader to see why she clings to Will. Possibly they plan to show parallels between the two characters as it unfolds rather than through Lyra (because thoughts are much harder to relate on screen in a natural way), before the children meet, so that when they finally do meet viewers can understand Lyra's interest in Will after what happens to Roger.

I think pp are being pretty harsh to be honest. Adaptations are never exact and they can't please everyone. No film or TV show can be as rich and textured as a book, they just can't - they don't have the same storytelling devices available to them, everything has to be visual or spoken, and they are limited by budgets. But I think its really good for what it is. Maybe try looking at it as separate to the books and you'll start actually enjoying it. Or just stop watching and it won't annoy you.

Just chipping in to say, that I absolutely LOVE the opening credits.

Completely agree! I love the way it shows the alethiometer, then the subtle knife and the amber spyglass. All the details are gorgeous. Beautifully done.

ChevalierTialys I don't think it's the introduction of Will's story that is the problem. I like the fact that Lord Boreal has more to do in this version, as he does play a prominent role in book two but I for one had sort of forgotten who he was when he appeared because he was barely in book one. I just think they should have saved the revelation about Will's father for later on, when its significance would have meant more.

It's possible to be enjoying something and yet still wish that certain aspects could have been done differently. As I said, I'm not a book-stickler at all and I am liking this adaptation overall. It's all part of the discussion.

I am rereading the first book and to be fair the tv show is doing a pretty good representation of the story.

Apart from the daemons of course.

Now that I’ve seen ep 3 ... I’m feeling slightly less disdainful than I was.

It’s true Lyra looks nothing like my imagining - but that can’t be helped. (Actually in my mind she looks like a twelve year old version of Ma Costa ...) I can see it would be impossible to resist the temptation to use Belle Sauvage to fill in the backstory on screen. But mainly it’s intriguing to see Lord Beautiful operating across two worlds and pulling the strings with regard to Will’s life. I found his and Lyra’s parallel lives so completely fascinating in the books. The fact they exist in the same time really underlined the strangeness of their both existing at all.

But they’d better get Will right. Other than Digory ( Magician’s Nephew ) there’s no boy I care more about in all fiction.

BuckingFrolics

shiny I disagree. Most of the people who have a name have a named demon who is active when they are active.

The dæmons tend to be referenced when they are setting the mood or interracting, but not every little thing. In a book it's easier to set the tone of an obedient dog trotting close to heel, or a sulking monkey in the corner pulling wings off a bat with a sentence, which tells you something about the human's behaviour or mood, but is harder to show on screen if it's not the primary focus of what is happening.

Dogs and birds seem to be getting the most action for minor characters.

What did jar was the disparity between the names of Tony and Billy's dæmons (from the way characters were rearranged and embellished). The quality of a dæmon tells you about the person. A person with a plain moggy cat would be different to a person with a more luxurious, unusual cat like Farder Coram, albeit with overlap of traits.

I've got La Belle Sauvage on order after picking up the second book in Costco yesterday. I'm having to be patient

Dislike the opening credits: Game of Thrones rip off!